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How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

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Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#21

Post by aurailious »

_khau wrote: post #18
friedman23 wrote: post #10

Whataboutism. edit: If someone is using whataboutism (as the person I'm responding to is) there is no real argument to respond to. Any modern day atrocity can be justified by saying that it was done in the past by a different nation. Saying that the US had done something in the past to justify a different countries' present day actions is intellectually lazy and dishonest and is meant to shut down discussion. I was j…

Invoking whataboutism is not a defense against hypocrisy.

Invoking whataboutism is an attempt to shut down conversation.

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#22

Post by coliveira »

reaperducer wrote: post #12
diego_moita wrote: post #9

And so what??? The US pried the textile and locomotives industries from the UK, check the history of Samuel Slater[1]. Same happened for Japan under Meiji restoration. India and Brazil do the same for pharmaceutical patents, because they're too poor to afford paying them. Stealing IP will happen, no matter what treaties and governments try to do. For poor countries it is a path they just don't have the luxury of givi…

The US pried the textile and locomotives industries from the UK This is the sort of argument that an eight-year-old makes to his mother, and the mother responds, "If Jimmy jumped off a bridge, would you?" I don't know if you're an American or not, but there's an very common expression: Two wrongs don't make a right.

Except that this is not jumping from a bridge, it is the tried and tested way to develop a nation's industry. Moreover, it is very funny hearing this coming from Americans who are in one side accepting that this is wrong and then in the same breath denouncing it being done to themselves!

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#23

Post by [deleted] »

_khau wrote: post #18
friedman23 wrote: post #10

Whataboutism. edit: If someone is using whataboutism (as the person I'm responding to is) there is no real argument to respond to. Any modern day atrocity can be justified by saying that it was done in the past by a different nation. Saying that the US had done something in the past to justify a different countries' present day actions is intellectually lazy and dishonest and is meant to shut down discussion. I was j…

Invoking whataboutism is not a defense against hypocrisy.

[deleted]

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#24

Post by friedman23 »

_khau wrote: post #18
friedman23 wrote: post #10

Whataboutism. edit: If someone is using whataboutism (as the person I'm responding to is) there is no real argument to respond to. Any modern day atrocity can be justified by saying that it was done in the past by a different nation. Saying that the US had done something in the past to justify a different countries' present day actions is intellectually lazy and dishonest and is meant to shut down discussion. I was j…

Invoking whataboutism is not a defense against hypocrisy.

Well I was never trying to defend against hypocrisy and no hypocrisy is present in the actions of the US considering these international norms were developed by the US more than a century after the supposed IP theft by the US took place.

Using the argument that some country did the same thing 100 or 200 years before is a child's argument and holds no weight. The Chinese government by taking advantage of the international order developed by the US has sown the seeds for the trade retaliation that is taking place today (to the detriment of everyone).

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#25

Post by kome »

YorkshireSeason wrote: post #11

There's a gentlemen's agreement between nations that this is permissible for poor nations. China is no longer poor and now must act like a wealthy nation and accept IP laws.

There is no law at the international level. China can do whatever it wants. But, other countries can do whatever they want as well: they can stop trading with China.

But China's labor is so cheap. Exploitation is a sweet sweet drug for the west. So, it's complicated.

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#26

Post by getmoheb »

YorkshireSeason wrote: post #11

There's a gentlemen's agreement between nations that this is permissible for poor nations. China is no longer poor and now must act like a wealthy nation and accept IP laws.

i can't tell if you're joking but there is no such thing as a 'gentlemen's agreement' in international relations. nations go as far as they can and do what they feel they can get away with to advance their interests. hence, you know, espionage.

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#27

Post by rayiner »

diego_moita wrote: post #9

And so what??? The US pried the textile and locomotives industries from the UK, check the history of Samuel Slater[1]. Same happened for Japan under Meiji restoration. India and Brazil do the same for pharmaceutical patents, because they're too poor to afford paying them. Stealing IP will happen, no matter what treaties and governments try to do. For poor countries it is a path they just don't have the luxury of givi…

The fact that we did it to the UK doesn't mean it's good for us to let China do it too. I mean, we exterminated the native Americans and stole their land--if someone tried to do that to us, should we sit back and do nothing? "Oh well, cosmic balance and whatnot!"

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#28

Post by Leary »

YorkshireSeason wrote: post #11

There's a gentlemen's agreement between nations that this is permissible for poor nations. China is no longer poor and now must act like a wealthy nation and accept IP laws.

Francis Cabot Lowell, who was instrumental behind the industrialization of the US, visited textile plants in the UK and committed their designs to memory, which were later introduced to the famed Lowell textile plants in Massachusetts.

At the time (1826), America's per capita GDP was $2,460, which is 68% of the UK's per capita GDP of $3,600. Today, China's per capita GDP is $16,000, or 29% of of the US's per capita GDP of $55,000.

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#29

Post by fhood »

Leary wrote: post #28
YorkshireSeason wrote: post #11

There's a gentlemen's agreement between nations that this is permissible for poor nations. China is no longer poor and now must act like a wealthy nation and accept IP laws.

Francis Cabot Lowell, who was instrumental behind the industrialization of the US, visited textile plants in the UK and committed their designs to memory, which were later introduced to the famed Lowell textile plants in Massachusetts. At the time (1826), America's per capita GDP was $2,460, which is 68% of the UK's per capita GDP of $3,600. Today, China's per capita GDP is $16,000, or 29% of of the US's per capita G…

Fair enough, but as I recall, respect for patent law at the time was very limited, particularly where other countries were concerned.

Re: How China Systematically Pries Technology from U.S. Companies

#30

Post by weberc2 »

coliveira wrote: post #22
reaperducer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US pried the textile and locomotives industries from the UK This is the sort of argument that an eight-year-old makes to his mother, and the mother responds, "If Jimmy jumped off a bridge, would you?" I don't know if you're an American or not, but there's an very common expression: Two wrongs don't make a right.

Except that this is not jumping from a bridge, it is the tried and tested way to develop a nation's industry. Moreover, it is very funny hearing this coming from Americans who are in one side accepting that this is wrong and then in the same breath denouncing it being done to themselves!

There's no contradiction; the standards in the 1800s were much lower across the globe. These standards are no longer acceptible today.
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