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The Absurdity of Detecting Gravitational Waves (2017) [video]

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Re: The Absurdity of Detecting Gravitational Waves (2017) [video]

#21
No concrete data on actual funding increases, but it appears the success of LIGO and gravity wave detection has kicked off a renaissance in basic research into fundamental theories of gravitation itself. With a space-based gravity wave detector in various stages of development. And the possibility that gravitons have been indirectly observed already.

Is Gravity Quantum?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-gravity-quantu...

Re: The Absurdity of Detecting Gravitational Waves (2017) [video]

#22
post #11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the advantage of using gravity waves?

Maybe the complexity required in detecting them acts as a form of security by obscurity. It's far more likely that radio waves would be intercepted.

Radio waves were first predicted almost exactly 150 years before the first confirmed detection of gravity waves. Either signal takes millions to billions of years to travel across the universe.

Re: The Absurdity of Detecting Gravitational Waves (2017) [video]

#23
post #6

I wonder if gravity wave detection could be ever be precise enough for communication. I wonder this because it occurs to me that one possible answer to Fermi's paradox is that aliens don't use Radio or other EM to chat. And maybe they don't leak it because they move energy and information around more efficiently than we do.

What would be the advantage of using gravity waves?

One reason would be that gravitational wave amplitude decays only as 1/distance instead of electromagnetic radiation which decays as 1/(distance squared).

...But man-made gravitational waves are, without some scientific advance eclipsing the discovery of electricity, completely beyond any human capability of being produced at the levels required for extra terrestrial communication.

Re: The Absurdity of Detecting Gravitational Waves (2017) [video]

#24
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or even better - make it space based: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Interferometer_Space_Ant...

Unfortunate to see NASA was forced to withdrawal (for budgetary concerns).

LISA has now been funded by ESA with a small contribution from NASA. It is slated for launch in the late 2020s / early 2030s.

Re: The Absurdity of Detecting Gravitational Waves (2017) [video]

#25
post #19

I wonder if gravity wave detection could be ever be precise enough for communication. I wonder this because it occurs to me that one possible answer to Fermi's paradox is that aliens don't use Radio or other EM to chat. And maybe they don't leak it because they move energy and information around more efficiently than we do.

If you want to communicate with an alien civilization you'd have to emit some kind of signal for a long period of time in order to ensure that they will receive it. Gravitational waves last for an instant and then you've missed them. Even if you've established communication with another civilization, using gravitational waves to carry on chatting seems like an awful waste of resources. The only scenario that seems pl…

> Gravitational waves last for an instant and then you've missed them.

Could you go into more detail? How do they differ from EM waves?

Re: The Absurdity of Detecting Gravitational Waves (2017) [video]

#26
post #2

This seems like a thing to build on the moon.

Funnily enough, the moon has recently been used to constrain the gravitational wave stochastic background [1], i.e. the space-time strain created by the stochastic gravitational wave emission of all massive bodies in the universe.

[1] https://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.90.10...

Re: The Absurdity of Detecting Gravitational Waves (2017) [video]

#27
post #23
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the advantage of using gravity waves?

One reason would be that gravitational wave amplitude decays only as 1/distance instead of electromagnetic radiation which decays as 1/(distance squared). ...But man-made gravitational waves are, without some scientific advance eclipsing the discovery of electricity, completely beyond any human capability of being produced at the levels required for extra terrestrial communication.

The amplitude decay certainly would be a very attractive feature for long distance applications. Maybe a gravity wave radar? Do they get reflected? Now we just need to mass produce black holes with the mass of the sun and bump them into each other :-)

Re: The Absurdity of Detecting Gravitational Waves (2017) [video]

#28
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to communicate with an alien civilization you'd have to emit some kind of signal for a long period of time in order to ensure that they will receive it. Gravitational waves last for an instant and then you've missed them. Even if you've established communication with another civilization, using gravitational waves to carry on chatting seems like an awful waste of resources. The only scenario that seems pl…

> Gravitational waves last for an instant and then you've missed them. Could you go into more detail? How do they differ from EM waves?

I don't think the OP is right. The waves LIGO detected lasted for an instant because they were from a fleeting cosmic event - two black holes spiraling into each other. But there's no reason as far as I know that a much more sensitive detector couldn't see waves from more mundane, longer-lasting events.

Though - at that point, why not just send EM waves? They travel the same speed. Maybe gravitational waves could penetrate anything, if you're willing to spend planetary amounts of energy to do it?

Re: The Absurdity of Detecting Gravitational Waves (2017) [video]

#29
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to communicate with an alien civilization you'd have to emit some kind of signal for a long period of time in order to ensure that they will receive it. Gravitational waves last for an instant and then you've missed them. Even if you've established communication with another civilization, using gravitational waves to carry on chatting seems like an awful waste of resources. The only scenario that seems pl…

> Gravitational waves last for an instant and then you've missed them. Could you go into more detail? How do they differ from EM waves?

I'm not a physicist so I can't elaborate much on the subject. From a few articles I've read at the time of the LIGO discovery they mentioned that the signals lasted for a very short period. Other than that I might be totally wrong so don't take for granted my assumption.

Re: The Absurdity of Detecting Gravitational Waves (2017) [video]

#30
post #23
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the advantage of using gravity waves?

One reason would be that gravitational wave amplitude decays only as 1/distance instead of electromagnetic radiation which decays as 1/(distance squared). ...But man-made gravitational waves are, without some scientific advance eclipsing the discovery of electricity, completely beyond any human capability of being produced at the levels required for extra terrestrial communication.

This is incorrect. Amplitude decays as 1/distance, but energy (and power) decays as 1/distance^2. This is the same as electromagnetic radiation.
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