EU Commission presents draft directive to ban some plastic waste

It's important to consider that people with some disabilities rely on plastic straws to be able to drink:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-derbyshire-43879489...

Plastic straws and polystyrene plates are also common materials for arts and crafts.

Whilst pollution is certainly an issue that must be tackled, banning disposable plastic products does have its drawbacks. I'm not saying a ban should not occur, but its implications should be considered.

> Curbing the use of plastic cups for beverages

I wonder what this will mean for events & festivals. E.g. Amsterdam has made it a policy that big events (including normal bars when the event is going on) must issue plastic cups to curb broken class everywhere. Will we have to go back to glass, or drink our beer out of paper cups?

> as well as plastic food containers, such as the ones used for take-away.

I'm open to this, it sucks to have to throw so much crap away after ordering take-away, but I haven't seen a container yet that would be suitable for e.g. 80 degree centigrade soups, stews etc. What are the alternatives that are cheap enough for disposable take-away use?

> Producers of fishing gear — which accounts for 27 percent of beach litter — will be required to cover the costs of waste collection in ports.

I'm worried about how making manufacturers pay for something like this will produce unintended externalities. I can also buy thin plastic lines that wink wink totally aren't intended for fishing. Won't it be trivial to avoid these taxes?

> Each member state should use a deposit system or other measure in order to collect 90 percent of plastic bottles used in their country by 2025.

I wouldn't mind such a system where you e.g. get 1 EUR back for each bottle, but it's going to have to be something like that. The current deposit fees on plastic bottles are too low, once you're earning enough money it doesn't make any financial sense to return them.

I was not arguing otherwise. Whenever I bring up issues like this I get a lot of "shoot the messenger."

My point was not that environmental concerns are wrong but that they do tend to decrease the economic well being of poor and middle class people more right now vs. the status quo. That in turn tends to anger these classes of people right now, causing them to vote for people like Donald Trump. Trump, a super-hard-right Republican, won largely because of working class traditionally progressive economic concerns.

The poor also cannot afford the luxury of thinking about the future. When you are poor your primary concern is getting out of poverty right f'ing now. Screw the future. The rich on the other hand can sacrifice for the future because they have abundance.

Try some grinding poverty and come back and tell me how much you care about what happens in 100 years. Now try some grinding poverty with children. Tell me how much you care about the great Pacific garbage patch after you watch your kids suffer a bit.

This is why I think what I call "abstinence based" environmental policies are doomed. I draw a deliberate analogy with right-wing abstinence-based sex-ed, which also fails pretty reliably. Abstinence based environmental policy is any attempt to solve environmental problems by preaching and shaming the poor and middle class into reducing consumption for the sake of some future ideal that might as well be heaven-and-hell as far as they are concerned here and now.

The only way we will create a world where we care about the future is to elevate as many people as possible out of poverty. This means we must build systems that create abundance now and try to figure out how to do so as sustainably as possible. If people can't afford the luxury of caring about the future, nothing serious will ever be done about massive problems like climate change.

Of course metal and wood tools are usually of a better quality, and they are nicer. I would avoid plastic until I can’t financially. However, the rationale of poor families buy plastic ustensils does make sense. You can buy a lot more for 2 or 3 euros, can reuse it, and it’s more easily obtainable.

s/plastic straws/straws/ ... there's nothing to prevent you from using paper, waxed paper, or reusable metal drinking straws except a price increase.