Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time • Hacker News Board

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#21

Post by ropeadopepope » Mon, May 07, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

spdionis wrote: post #18

ropeadopepope wrote: post #8

In short, time awareness and spatial awareness are linked. Does that mean if you increase your spatial reasoning skills, you could increase the accuracy of your perception of time? I ask because my spatial reasoning skills suck and so does my sense of time. The possibility of increasing both of these skills at the same time instead of just the one changes the cost/benefit equation for me.

I have horrible spatial awareness but I can easily keep a beat and I've been a drummer when I was younger. As with all these correlations they are probably too simplistic.

I'm also a drummer. Rhythm is not the same as the awareness of the passage of time. How are you with the passage of time throughout a day? Do you know when it's morning or afternoon without having to look at a clock? Do you know what day of the month it is without having to look at a calendar? How about month of the year?

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#22

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, May 07, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

cecilpl2 wrote: post #17

Pimpus wrote: post #2

> “In older language, distances were typically given by time — the days it takes to go from one valley to another — since it was not distance but the number of sunsets that was easy to calculate.” This makes sense evolutionarily. I imagine that for the primitive man, a concept like time did not make much sense -- position and motion were the important things to track. We were aware of change, but perhaps we did not c…

Interestingly, where I'm from (BC, Canada), it's quite common to give distances between cities in terms of driving time. "Oh, Kelowna is about 5 hours away." Is this expression common anywhere else?

I suppose. I've noticed that I often answer questions ostensibly about distance with time units. For instance, I was recently asked by the boss how far do I live from $meeting_place, to which I answered "90 minutes or so". Because what he was really asking for is how difficult it would be for me to get there, for which time is a much better approximation than distance.

Usually people don't care about actual distance. It's not useful for much, unless you're drawing a map. Also, note how new transport options change the perception of the world. 200 years ago, my ancestor would probably not bother with a casual visit to a town 70+ km away. These days, I don't think much of running errands over that distance - it's a 1.5h bus ride away, so I can go there in the morning, do stuff, and come back before dinner (and thanks to the current tech, I can also clock in some work time during commute).

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#23

Post by always_good » Mon, May 07, 2018, 2:52 PM UTC

If you take enough acid, it can become incredibly difficult to perceive the passage of time with eyes closed. On one of my higher doses, I was in such an uncomfortable state of mental agitation, fetal position under my covers, that I tried killing time by playing a game of pretending hours were passing when I closed my eyes, and I could briefly believe it until an external sound clued me back in.

Changes in spatial perception might also explain some mental visions, like truly massive scale structures that are hard to imagine when sober, but those incidents aren't as profound on acid in my experience, and you don't see them visually. They're more high-definition thoughts.

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#24

Post by ropeadopepope » Mon, May 07, 2018, 2:54 PM UTC

Pimpus wrote: post #14

ropeadopepope wrote: post #8

In short, time awareness and spatial awareness are linked. Does that mean if you increase your spatial reasoning skills, you could increase the accuracy of your perception of time? I ask because my spatial reasoning skills suck and so does my sense of time. The possibility of increasing both of these skills at the same time instead of just the one changes the cost/benefit equation for me.

Interesting, have you ever had depression? Depression has been linked to low hippocampus size[0]. Would be interesting to see how the drug mentioned by the article affects spatial reasoning and sense of time. [0]: https://gizmodo.com/5874433/the-pill-that-could-cure-depress... (I once read about a differently-named drug which increases hippocampus size and treats depression but I'm unable to find it now)

The only time I've ever been "depressed" was when I was also addicted to high reward behaviors. I know these high reward behaviors are linked to both depression and a lack of short and long term memory. It sounds like high reward behaviors (ie: addictions), small hippocampus size, spatial awareness and time awareness could all be interconnected. Or maybe they're separate causes for the same phenomena. I don't know, but it's worth taking a closer look.

I wonder how much it costs to get my brain scanned.

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#25

Post by hammock » Mon, May 07, 2018, 3:12 PM UTC

ropeadopepope wrote: post #8

In short, time awareness and spatial awareness are linked. Does that mean if you increase your spatial reasoning skills, you could increase the accuracy of your perception of time? I ask because my spatial reasoning skills suck and so does my sense of time. The possibility of increasing both of these skills at the same time instead of just the one changes the cost/benefit equation for me.

It makes sense that our sense of time and space would be linked - how else does one perceive the discrete passage of time but by sensing discrete spatial differences in our surroundings? The hands of a clock, the position of the sun, the water level of a draining pool, etc..

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#26

Post by prophesi » Mon, May 07, 2018, 3:12 PM UTC

cecilpl2 wrote: post #17

Pimpus wrote: post #2

> “In older language, distances were typically given by time — the days it takes to go from one valley to another — since it was not distance but the number of sunsets that was easy to calculate.” This makes sense evolutionarily. I imagine that for the primitive man, a concept like time did not make much sense -- position and motion were the important things to track. We were aware of change, but perhaps we did not c…

Interestingly, where I'm from (BC, Canada), it's quite common to give distances between cities in terms of driving time. "Oh, Kelowna is about 5 hours away." Is this expression common anywhere else?

My friend from Houston, TX says it's very common over there. My guess is that it's due to how chaotic the roads are in Houston, so a 5 minute drive versus a 10 minute drive makes a world of a difference.

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#27

Post by olivermarks » Mon, May 07, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

Fascinating article. Time is a human construct, it's interesting to me how the fundamentals of the planet - sunrise and sunset, the two solstice moments as the planet tilts into the other direction to provide more of less sunlight - are overshadowed by human habit patterns. The 'Brain’s Space-Time Matrix' sounds like our true underpinnings, as opposed to our concepts of time by the clock and calendar year..

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#28

Post by martin-adams » Mon, May 07, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

ropeadopepope wrote: post #8

In short, time awareness and spatial awareness are linked. Does that mean if you increase your spatial reasoning skills, you could increase the accuracy of your perception of time? I ask because my spatial reasoning skills suck and so does my sense of time. The possibility of increasing both of these skills at the same time instead of just the one changes the cost/benefit equation for me.

If they weren't linked, I don't think I'd ever be able to catch a ball thrown up in the air

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#29

Post by stefantheard » Mon, May 07, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

prophesi wrote: post #26

cecilpl2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, where I'm from (BC, Canada), it's quite common to give distances between cities in terms of driving time. "Oh, Kelowna is about 5 hours away." Is this expression common anywhere else?

My friend from Houston, TX says it's very common over there. My guess is that it's due to how chaotic the roads are in Houston, so a 5 minute drive versus a 10 minute drive makes a world of a difference.

Also from Houston. Giving distances is almost meaningless in this city 2.8 miles away could be 20 minutes or it could be 3 minutes, so time is really the only accurate measure.

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#30

Post by wvenable » Mon, May 07, 2018, 3:36 PM UTC

cecilpl2 wrote: post #17

Pimpus wrote: post #2

> “In older language, distances were typically given by time — the days it takes to go from one valley to another — since it was not distance but the number of sunsets that was easy to calculate.” This makes sense evolutionarily. I imagine that for the primitive man, a concept like time did not make much sense -- position and motion were the important things to track. We were aware of change, but perhaps we did not c…

Interestingly, where I'm from (BC, Canada), it's quite common to give distances between cities in terms of driving time. "Oh, Kelowna is about 5 hours away." Is this expression common anywhere else?

I've heard this is a Canadian thing -- I also measure pretty much all distances by time. (15 minutes away, 2 hours away, 12 hours away, etc).

This might have been the consequence of switching from imperial measurements to metric in the 70s.