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Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

quantamagazine.org

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Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#11

Post by blueprint »

Pimpus wrote: post #9
blueprint wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The greatest masters in the history of the human world such as Gautama Buddha never taught or used the term "ego". That ought to tell humans something.

I've developed an intuitive understanding of what people mean by this term after experiencing its absence and subsequent return. It's the judge, the classifier, the model-maker; it filters incoming information and tries to make sense of it, usually distorting it in the process. Without it, the outside world is strange and magical but also chaotic and overwhelming. But that's just a description, the feeling of its pre…

It's not a matter of what it is in Buddhism, the term doesn't refer to an existent thing as it is, THAT is the problem. It's used only by those who don't perceive. Let me give you an example. Think of a mathematician who knows their shit. Now think of that mathematician using an ambiguous term that lacks rigor and therefore introduces inaccuracies in a range of cases. A lay person who doesn't understand the term may use it easily but the mathematician in the other hand finds it very hard to use such a term. The reason is merely that they can realize it's not true.

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#12

Post by kortex »

ropeadopepope wrote: post #8

In short, time awareness and spatial awareness are linked. Does that mean if you increase your spatial reasoning skills, you could increase the accuracy of your perception of time? I ask because my spatial reasoning skills suck and so does my sense of time. The possibility of increasing both of these skills at the same time instead of just the one changes the cost/benefit equation for me.

That seems to follow. Subjectively, meds that boost my visio-spatial skills seem to also help my temporal perception/planning as well.

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#13

Post by goldenkey »

ropeadopepope wrote: post #8

In short, time awareness and spatial awareness are linked. Does that mean if you increase your spatial reasoning skills, you could increase the accuracy of your perception of time? I ask because my spatial reasoning skills suck and so does my sense of time. The possibility of increasing both of these skills at the same time instead of just the one changes the cost/benefit equation for me.

It's all just pattern matching. I would posit that the same neurons that imagine the future, also assist in imagining areas outside of ones' immediacy. Qualia are related to information sources that are orthogonal/uncorrelated.

Try this experiment and see how you fare. When you're in the shower, imagine that the feeling of the water (preferably cold), is like being in the middle of a fire. Imagine being bathed in the flames. Try to associate "wet" with smoke, dancing flames, no pain in any way. It's surprisingly hard but possible. It almost puts me in a meditative state when I try this unintuitive association excercise.

Anyhow, there are learned separations between observations and qualia. I think the one between time and space is such -- learned, not so much due to actual specialization in the brain's anatomy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaneron

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#14

Post by Pimpus »

ropeadopepope wrote: post #8

In short, time awareness and spatial awareness are linked. Does that mean if you increase your spatial reasoning skills, you could increase the accuracy of your perception of time? I ask because my spatial reasoning skills suck and so does my sense of time. The possibility of increasing both of these skills at the same time instead of just the one changes the cost/benefit equation for me.

Interesting, have you ever had depression? Depression has been linked to low hippocampus size[0]. Would be interesting to see how the drug mentioned by the article affects spatial reasoning and sense of time.

[0]: https://gizmodo.com/5874433/the-pill-that-could-cure-depress... (I once read about a differently-named drug which increases hippocampus size and treats depression but I'm unable to find it now)

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#15

Post by kortex »

mbrumlow wrote: post #6
Pimpus wrote: post #2

> “In older language, distances were typically given by time — the days it takes to go from one valley to another — since it was not distance but the number of sunsets that was easy to calculate.” This makes sense evolutionarily. I imagine that for the primitive man, a concept like time did not make much sense -- position and motion were the important things to track. We were aware of change, but perhaps we did not c…

I don't think we have any proof that time is steady. It may just appear as steady. Much like clock based games way back when. You could speed up or slow down the clock rate and the game would be run the same. Only a external observer out side of the system would be able to detect the change. Edit. But I guess you were talking about our perception of time.

Oh man, that reminds me of the time I tried to get Operation: Weather Disaster (ah, nostalgia!) running on a "modern" computer (win98 or xp, vs the intended '95 I think). After much foolery with compatibility settings, I finally got it to work, and it played great... until the final boss fight. It ran so impossibly fast that I would have to be one of those reinforcement AIs to actually succeed. Must have been tied to clock speed.

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#16

Post by swamp40 »

blueprint wrote: post #5
Pimpus wrote: post #2

> “In older language, distances were typically given by time — the days it takes to go from one valley to another — since it was not distance but the number of sunsets that was easy to calculate.” This makes sense evolutionarily. I imagine that for the primitive man, a concept like time did not make much sense -- position and motion were the important things to track. We were aware of change, but perhaps we did not c…

The greatest masters in the history of the human world such as Gautama Buddha never taught or used the term "ego". That ought to tell humans something.

Wasn't it Freud only 100 years ago who popularized the modern usage of the word 'ego' as everyone uses it today?

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#17

Post by cecilpl2 »

Pimpus wrote: post #2

> “In older language, distances were typically given by time — the days it takes to go from one valley to another — since it was not distance but the number of sunsets that was easy to calculate.” This makes sense evolutionarily. I imagine that for the primitive man, a concept like time did not make much sense -- position and motion were the important things to track. We were aware of change, but perhaps we did not c…

Interestingly, where I'm from (BC, Canada), it's quite common to give distances between cities in terms of driving time.

"Oh, Kelowna is about 5 hours away."

Is this expression common anywhere else?

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#18

Post by spdionis »

ropeadopepope wrote: post #8

In short, time awareness and spatial awareness are linked. Does that mean if you increase your spatial reasoning skills, you could increase the accuracy of your perception of time? I ask because my spatial reasoning skills suck and so does my sense of time. The possibility of increasing both of these skills at the same time instead of just the one changes the cost/benefit equation for me.

I have horrible spatial awareness but I can easily keep a beat and I've been a drummer when I was younger. As with all these correlations they are probably too simplistic.

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#19

Post by wil421 »

cecilpl2 wrote: post #17
Pimpus wrote: post #2

> “In older language, distances were typically given by time — the days it takes to go from one valley to another — since it was not distance but the number of sunsets that was easy to calculate.” This makes sense evolutionarily. I imagine that for the primitive man, a concept like time did not make much sense -- position and motion were the important things to track. We were aware of change, but perhaps we did not c…

Interestingly, where I'm from (BC, Canada), it's quite common to give distances between cities in terms of driving time. "Oh, Kelowna is about 5 hours away." Is this expression common anywhere else?

Yes I would give the distance in time if I was telling someone which suburb I grew up in. Ex. 30 minutes from downtown or about 45 from the airport.

I would do the same referencing smaller cites or states/locations close by. 6 hours from the gulf or 2 hours from this college.

Re: Brain cells that track location in space appear to also count beats in time

#20

Post by yosito »

This is a really interesting concept. I'm able to take a look at the layout of a room, then turn off the light and navigate across the room easily without running into obstacles. It's not a perfect skill, but it seems like a very tangible ability to me since I consciously do it. I'm also able to wake myself up most mornings without an alarm within 15 minutes of my intended time despite not having a regular schedule, but since I do that while unconscious, I'm hesitant to believe that it's a real ability and not just good luck. The idea that my brain's ability to count beats in time could be related to my it's ability to track location in space makes me believe it could be a tangible ability after all.
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