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Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

blogs.reuters.com

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Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#21

Post by k__ »

losvedir wrote: post #11
Hendrikto wrote: post #6

The USA are abolishing themselves... > In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity. Work smart, not hard.

Isn't labor productivity measured per-time, though? If there are diminishing marginal returns on labor (as there are on everything else) then it would make sense that those who work the least are the most productive. It doesn't mean they produce the most, though.

True.

Isn't something like output/time

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#22

Post by zeth___ »

What if it isn't a bug but a feature?

Tired citizens are not engaged citizens, they don't have the energy to organize and push for their interests.

Workers being less productive is a small price to pay for employers when all your productivity gains go to them anyway.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#23

Post by comment123456 »

Hendrikto wrote: post #6

The USA are abolishing themselves... > In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity. Work smart, not hard.

People really dont understand the term productivity. Productivity is produced value / hours of work. So usually people that work the hardest will have lower productivity that does not mean less value produced. Something can have very bad productivity but be very profitable and generate a lot more value than something else with bigger productivity.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#24

Post by qwr23qwer »

"Leisure" might not mean exactly what we think it means today.

I think it'll be obvious to anyone who's worked in a manual labour job e.g. construction, farming, etc, even with today's tools, you can't physically do these at anything but a "leisurely pace" and a limited amount of hours a day, with breaks for rest, food etc.

Specially in warmer climates. Claiming that this means that life was easy is a little bit dishonest here.

There's a limit to what's humanly possible, digging ditches with shovels for 8 hours a day is not equal to sitting in an office for same 8 hours. No matter how many breaks you have, and at how "leisurely pace" you're digging.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#25

Post by emodendroket »

comment123456 wrote: post #23
Hendrikto wrote: post #6

The USA are abolishing themselves... > In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity. Work smart, not hard.

People really dont understand the term productivity. Productivity is produced value / hours of work. So usually people that work the hardest will have lower productivity that does not mean less value produced. Something can have very bad productivity but be very profitable and generate a lot more value than something else with bigger productivity.

If the returns diminish rapidly then perhaps it doesn't make sense to waste so much time at the office.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#26

Post by emodendroket »

qwr23qwer wrote: post #24

"Leisure" might not mean exactly what we think it means today. I think it'll be obvious to anyone who's worked in a manual labour job e.g. construction, farming, etc, even with today's tools, you can't physically do these at anything but a "leisurely pace" and a limited amount of hours a day, with breaks for rest, food etc. Specially in warmer climates. Claiming that this means that life was easy is a little bit dish…

Yeah, sure, but how many construction workers work only 150 days a year and have mid-day naps?

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#27

Post by emodendroket »

Spooky23 wrote: post #15
ptero wrote: post #9

> In addition to relaxing during long holidays, the medieval peasant took his sweet time eating meals, and the day often included time for an afternoon snooze. I have serious doubts about this. Maybe someone could provide additional insight. I doubt all time not working the fields was "relaxing during long holidays". It would likely be spent on other chores. Food was likely not plentiful (when it is, population explo…

Yeah there is definately an issue with understanding about what constitutes a vacation. The 14th century equivalent of unpaid vacation drinking malt liquor in a trailer isn’t my vision of a life of leisure.

In the Middle Ages nobody was taking a "vacation" in the sense we mean it; that's really a more Victorian idea. But enough people today can't actually afford to go away when they have time off.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#28

Post by emodendroket »

exratione wrote: post #19

A lens to look at this through is the struggle for control over the population. The competing factions in the Middle Ages were very different from those now - so the manifestations of authoritarianism naturally differed in the Middle Ages. Large numbers of holy days (holidays) went hand in hand with simony and temporal power emanating from Rome. The church was just as rapacious and self-interested as the lords who cl…

I mean, it's a lens, but I don't know that I'd view merrymaking during holidays as a sinister form of control.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#29

Post by adventured »

emodendroket wrote: post #16
ptero wrote: post #9

> In addition to relaxing during long holidays, the medieval peasant took his sweet time eating meals, and the day often included time for an afternoon snooze. I have serious doubts about this. Maybe someone could provide additional insight. I doubt all time not working the fields was "relaxing during long holidays". It would likely be spent on other chores. Food was likely not plentiful (when it is, population explo…

I don't know that I see the relevancy of the chores, though. Do they go away if you work longer hours? Medieval peasants, as far as I know, did drink a lot of beer.

They get automated away, reduced in time demand and reduced in strenuousness. Clothing becomes the click of a button, not sewing for 80 hours. Washing those clothes becomes 5 minutes of sorting and throwing it into a washing machine & dryer, not hours of exhausting manual labor. And so on.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#30

Post by tomcooks »

Hendrikto wrote: post #6

The USA are abolishing themselves... > In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity. Work smart, not hard.

One begins to wonder why Greece works so hard and still has a terrible economy, together with the other PIIGS.

MUST BE BECAUSE THEY ARE LAZY! /s

(disclosure: I'm a piig)

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