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Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

blogs.reuters.com

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Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#11

Post by losvedir »

Hendrikto wrote: post #6

The USA are abolishing themselves... > In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity. Work smart, not hard.

Isn't labor productivity measured per-time, though? If there are diminishing marginal returns on labor (as there are on everything else) then it would make sense that those who work the least are the most productive. It doesn't mean they produce the most, though.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#12

Post by stupidcar »

golergka wrote: post #3

Because he didn't have a choice. If he could trade this vacation for more food, medication for his children, or many other resources, he gladly would - but I don't think that as a peasant in the winter you really could make anything out of your time without a capitalist society and other jobs. All modern people have a choice about how much time they spend at their jobs. I've switched to 3-day workweek sometimes, raki…

By "all modern people", you apparently mean the relatively small group of middle-class professionals who can earn a decent salary on a shorter working week, and are in a position to negotiate it.

There is a far larger group of people working in low-skilled jobs whose entire salary is not enough to cover their outgoings, and must also rely on consumer debt and government assistance to support themselves and their families (think Walmart workers on foodstamps). What's more, the balance of power with their employer is such that they have absolutely no leverage to negotiate shorter working hours, even if they wanted to. A low-skilled worker is expected to be at the beck and call of their employer up to, and often beyond, the legal limit of work. When you can be fired from a job you've held for years for being 30 seconds late, you're not going to get far asking to work two less days a week.

It's nice that you were able to arrange an easier lifestyle for yourself, but don't mistake your privileged situation for the norm.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#13

Post by mbroncano »

Hendrikto wrote: post #6

The USA are abolishing themselves... > In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity. Work smart, not hard.

Exactly, job scarcity is heavily correlated to long working hours in countries like Greece.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#14

Post by macspoofing »

This sounds like it could be explained by the same structural problems that communist nations went through ... in that if you don't own the land, and the proceeds of what you make don't really belong to you and there is no incentive to make more than what your neighbour makes ... why not put in the least amount of work you can.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#15

Post by Spooky23 »

ptero wrote: post #9

> In addition to relaxing during long holidays, the medieval peasant took his sweet time eating meals, and the day often included time for an afternoon snooze. I have serious doubts about this. Maybe someone could provide additional insight. I doubt all time not working the fields was "relaxing during long holidays". It would likely be spent on other chores. Food was likely not plentiful (when it is, population explo…

Yeah there is definately an issue with understanding about what constitutes a vacation.

The 14th century equivalent of unpaid vacation drinking malt liquor in a trailer isn’t my vision of a life of leisure.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#16

Post by emodendroket »

ptero wrote: post #9

> In addition to relaxing during long holidays, the medieval peasant took his sweet time eating meals, and the day often included time for an afternoon snooze. I have serious doubts about this. Maybe someone could provide additional insight. I doubt all time not working the fields was "relaxing during long holidays". It would likely be spent on other chores. Food was likely not plentiful (when it is, population explo…

I don't know that I see the relevancy of the chores, though. Do they go away if you work longer hours?

Medieval peasants, as far as I know, did drink a lot of beer.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#17

Post by emodendroket »

macspoofing wrote: post #14

This sounds like it could be explained by the same structural problems that communist nations went through ... in that if you don't own the land, and the proceeds of what you make don't really belong to you and there is no incentive to make more than what your neighbour makes ... why not put in the least amount of work you can.

I feel like the same lack of "incentive" applies to many people with menial jobs in a capitalist economy.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#18

Post by emodendroket »

stupidcar wrote: post #12
golergka wrote: post #3

Because he didn't have a choice. If he could trade this vacation for more food, medication for his children, or many other resources, he gladly would - but I don't think that as a peasant in the winter you really could make anything out of your time without a capitalist society and other jobs. All modern people have a choice about how much time they spend at their jobs. I've switched to 3-day workweek sometimes, raki…

By "all modern people", you apparently mean the relatively small group of middle-class professionals who can earn a decent salary on a shorter working week, and are in a position to negotiate it. There is a far larger group of people working in low-skilled jobs whose entire salary is not enough to cover their outgoings, and must also rely on consumer debt and government assistance to support themselves and their fami…

Don't forget health insurance.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#19

Post by exratione »

A lens to look at this through is the struggle for control over the population. The competing factions in the Middle Ages were very different from those now - so the manifestations of authoritarianism naturally differed in the Middle Ages. Large numbers of holy days (holidays) went hand in hand with simony and temporal power emanating from Rome. The church was just as rapacious and self-interested as the lords who claimed ownership over the peasantry.

So then, a fractious feudal nobility, the ruler, and the church, now fractious corporate powers and a more unified state, with the church faded to irrelevance in temporal matters. The only constant is the undiminished desire to order the lives of others in order to farm them for profit, to be the stationary bandit.

Even if matters were the same, however, the march of technology would still make the present a far better place to live than the past. It is technology, not politics, that is the greatest driver of quality of life.

Re: Medieval peasants got more vacation time than modern workers (2013)

#20

Post by IloveHN84 »

Hendrikto wrote: post #6

The USA are abolishing themselves... > In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity. Work smart, not hard.

And working in Germany, I can say that productivity!= quality
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