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Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

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Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#21

Post by morley »

MrLeap wrote: post #18
Erlangolem wrote: post #5

I violently disagree with 19. The overuse of contrived means of creating tension is lazy, predictable, and frustrating. More unpleasant is the tendency of characters to become inexplicably stupid, inexperienced, and illogical under those circumstances. I’m not asking for purely rationalist fiction, but if the tension is utterly contrived, I check out. Contrived tension is no more useful than contrived resolution of t…

Right there with you. A coincidence to kick the action off at the very beginning can be cool. Using it as glue leads to really awkward transitions, but I'll forgive it once. More than 2 uncanny coincidences in a season? No longer uncanny, I often stop watching. Dexter became a coincidence parade after the first season. But I couldn't keep watching once he became bad at murder. Relatability isn't a virtue if your char…

Rule 19 reads:

> 19. Coincidences to get characters into trouble are great; coincidences to get them out of it are cheating.

The rule means basically what you said. "To get characters into trouble" means basically the first third of a movie or so, or the point in the movie that "kicks the action off". So I'm not sure what in that rule can be reasonably disagreed with.

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#22

Post by fenomas »

Erlangolem wrote: post #5

I violently disagree with 19. The overuse of contrived means of creating tension is lazy, predictable, and frustrating. More unpleasant is the tendency of characters to become inexplicably stupid, inexperienced, and illogical under those circumstances. I’m not asking for purely rationalist fiction, but if the tension is utterly contrived, I check out. Contrived tension is no more useful than contrived resolution of t…

You're reading it backwards. The point being made is "never get your characters out of trouble by coincidence", not "always get your characters into trouble by coincidence".

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#23

Post by [deleted] »

mrspeaker wrote: post #14

"Discount the 1st thing that comes to mind. And the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th – get the obvious out of the way." I make this my personal rule when replying to something on the internet: if it's the first thing you thought of, there are already 20 other replies saying exactly the same thing!

[deleted]

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#24

Post by MrLeap »

morley wrote: post #21
MrLeap wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right there with you. A coincidence to kick the action off at the very beginning can be cool. Using it as glue leads to really awkward transitions, but I'll forgive it once. More than 2 uncanny coincidences in a season? No longer uncanny, I often stop watching. Dexter became a coincidence parade after the first season. But I couldn't keep watching once he became bad at murder. Relatability isn't a virtue if your char…

Rule 19 reads: > 19. Coincidences to get characters into trouble are great; coincidences to get them out of it are cheating. The rule means basically what you said. "To get characters into trouble" means basically the first third of a movie or so, or the point in the movie that "kicks the action off". So I'm not sure what in that rule can be reasonably disagreed with.

I feel like a reasonable man. I was writing about a nuance, a restraint on the unqualified use of the word "great".

Now you've given me a thought experiment. How to give a treaty of versailles treatment to a rant about TV shows.

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#25

Post by joe_the_user »

ChrisSD wrote: post #3
laufj wrote: post #2

Stories are more interesting to me when it feels like the characters are consistent and real, and their motivations are driving their actions, not the invisible hand of the storyteller that already has an ending and theme in mind. Because in this case I have something to learn from it.

Undoubtedly. However old sci-fi authors did do well out of making the concept the focus. They were often much much weaker at characterisation and characters really only existed to explore the high concept. In some ways they were like an essay but in story form. As someone who grew up reading these, I would have liked better characterisation but concept focused stories still appeal to me.

Sure but that sort of approach of making the concept the focus depended on giving the concept depth and richness.

The Pixar approach allows nothing to have depth but everything to still work emotionally. Any variety of original, well-craft fiction will have "meat" whereas this sort of thing is more or less just "sugar" instead.

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#26

Post by joe_the_user »

I have been running a Pathfinder (table top rpg) campaign for the last several years. A lot of these rules are great hints for a dungeon master as well as for a writer.

However, I think these rules can easily be "how to write a shallow but emotionally compelling story" (surprise, surprise).

That said, having these rules on the table (so to speak) is useful for when you as story teller want to have something other than the obvious happen (ie, know the rules to break them). Try occasionally having extra, useless characters just to confuse people. Have detours and details that turn into their own story. Slow down or speed-up pace just for the heck of it. Let the players find ways to short-circuit all the apparent barriers and then have something different happen.

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#27

Post by bennesvig »

BeetleB wrote: post #9
dahart wrote: post #6

> 4. Once upon a time there was ___. Every day, ___. One day ___. Because of that, ___. Because of that, ___. Until finally ___. This one reminds me of writing advice from South Park's Trey Parker: write better stories by figuring out how to replace all your "ands" and "buts" with "therefore". http://www.presentationzen.com/presentationzen/2015/05/the-k... > 20. Exercise: take the building blocks of a movie you disli…

Item 4 is one I've seen elsewhere: https://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Ink-Practical-Building-Reso... In fact, I recall a Pixar writer said it was one of his favorite books. Actually, I found it (same blog): https://www.aerogrammestudio.com/2013/03/22/the-story-spine-... Apparently the author claims neither he nor Pixar came up with it.

I've read dozens of books on storytelling and Invisible Ink is one of my favorites.

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#28

Post by arethuza »

dahart wrote: post #6

> 4. Once upon a time there was ___. Every day, ___. One day ___. Because of that, ___. Because of that, ___. Until finally ___. This one reminds me of writing advice from South Park's Trey Parker: write better stories by figuring out how to replace all your "ands" and "buts" with "therefore". http://www.presentationzen.com/presentationzen/2015/05/the-k... > 20. Exercise: take the building blocks of a movie you disli…

"How d’you rearrange them into what you DO like?"

Are you allowed to combine multiple movies? If so them I'm off to combine "Howards End" and "The Hurt Locker" into something more to my taste....

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#29

Post by macintux »

kibwen wrote: post #16
Erlangolem wrote: post #5

I violently disagree with 19. The overuse of contrived means of creating tension is lazy, predictable, and frustrating. More unpleasant is the tendency of characters to become inexplicably stupid, inexperienced, and illogical under those circumstances. I’m not asking for purely rationalist fiction, but if the tension is utterly contrived, I check out. Contrived tension is no more useful than contrived resolution of t…

Speaking as someone who really likes #19, you may be reading subtext that isn't there. Coincidences, in small doses, are the foundation of stories. Every story gets one extraordinary coincidence, because extraordinary coincidences happen all the time (just not usually multiple times to the same actors within a short span of time, which is where Deus ex Machina starts being levied). Star Wars is premised upon the coin…

The number of coincidences in the first 40 minutes of The Force Awakens is staggering.
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