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China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

nytimes.com

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Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#21

Post by adventured »

daodedickinson wrote: post #3
adjkant wrote: post #2

> “I personally am not sure what the solution is for these companies,” said Mr. Rosenzweig. “I don’t see a good answer because the Chinese government is really putting them between a rock and a hard place.” I don't think this is that hard of a decision, is it? Just say no and cut ties with efforts for China as a market. Any profits there are not worth jeopardizing all of the privacy and precedents that are being slow…

I think it's too late. Bill Clinton sold them enough tech in the 90s in exchange for defense contractor kickbacks that now China has passed the US in military technology. China has too much influence and money on too many US campuses and has students demanding repeal of the 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments, which will help continue the growth of Chinese power. Xi Jinping is explicit in his goal to bring democracy to an e…

> now China has passed the US in military technology

China hasn't come close to passing the US in military technology in fact.

Technologically they're behind the US in: destroyers, submarines, helicopters, drones, laser weapons, satellites, integrated command systems, aircraft carriers, ICBMs and general nuclear weapon technology, tanks, bombers, jet fighters. In several of these categories, China is extremely far behind.

The Germans, French, British and Russians also have countless military gear that is still technologically well ahead of China. Overall, Russia's military technology capabilities are well ahead of China. China still struggles with primitives like jet engines, which Russia has long since mastered.

China still can't field a single long range aircraft carrier. Currently they're unable to push their military projection much beyond Japan and limited parts of the Indian Ocean. The US has true global force projection to practically every corner of the globe. Will China catch up? Plausibly; it'll take 30 years for them to build all the bases necessary to do it.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#22

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ilamont wrote: post #17

Facebook suspended Mr. Guo’s account. In a statement, the company said the account published the personal information of others without their consent, which violated the platform’s policies. Zuckerberg wants to be in China in such a bad way. He's learned Mandarin, plays up his family connections (via his wife's family), and puts on the charm when visiting China. He's created relationships with officials at every leve…

Did Mr. Guo in fact publish the personal information of others? If so, should Facebook make an exception for him because he's an activist?

(If he didn't, then of course Facebook should, first, not suspend his account to appease China, and second, not lie about why they did.)

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#23

Post by s73v3r_ »

adjkant wrote: post #2

> “I personally am not sure what the solution is for these companies,” said Mr. Rosenzweig. “I don’t see a good answer because the Chinese government is really putting them between a rock and a hard place.” I don't think this is that hard of a decision, is it? Just say no and cut ties with efforts for China as a market. Any profits there are not worth jeopardizing all of the privacy and precedents that are being slow…

"Any profits there are not worth jeopardizing all of the privacy and precedents that are being slowly pushed."

Counterpoint: Scrooge-McDuck-Money-Bin.gif

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#24

Post by incompatible »

mirimir wrote: post #15

This is rather biased against China. OK, so Chinese authorities have arrested citizens who have posted "illegal" material. I don't see that they've grabbed citizens of other countries off the streets, which the US and Israel have done. Or pressed other countries to extradite their citizens based on criminal allegations, which the US commonly does. And about takedown requests to Google etc. MPAA and other "rights hold…

Gui Minhai, citizen of Sweden, was kidnapped in Thailand and secretly imprisoned in China.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#25

Post by hueving »

mark_edward wrote: post #6
adjkant wrote: post #2

> “I personally am not sure what the solution is for these companies,” said Mr. Rosenzweig. “I don’t see a good answer because the Chinese government is really putting them between a rock and a hard place.” I don't think this is that hard of a decision, is it? Just say no and cut ties with efforts for China as a market. Any profits there are not worth jeopardizing all of the privacy and precedents that are being slow…

When profits come up against morality, profits will win every time. How do you think we even got to this situation in the first place?

This is not true. There are a bunch of businesses that use there moral positions as advertising to great effect.

This is why Apple doesn't sell away your data, why every city is filled with local and organic restaurants, etc.

The market does select for moral positions, you just might not like those positions.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#26

Post by HumanDrivenDev »

biesnecker wrote: post #4
adjkant wrote: post #2

> “I personally am not sure what the solution is for these companies,” said Mr. Rosenzweig. “I don’t see a good answer because the Chinese government is really putting them between a rock and a hard place.” I don't think this is that hard of a decision, is it? Just say no and cut ties with efforts for China as a market. Any profits there are not worth jeopardizing all of the privacy and precedents that are being slow…

“When we hang the capitalists they will sell us the rope we use.” Because they have a fiduciary duty to, obviously.

Quoting Stalin? Classy. Have any good Hitler quotes you want to share while you're at it?

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#27

Post by s73v3r_ »

mirimir wrote: post #15

This is rather biased against China. OK, so Chinese authorities have arrested citizens who have posted "illegal" material. I don't see that they've grabbed citizens of other countries off the streets, which the US and Israel have done. Or pressed other countries to extradite their citizens based on criminal allegations, which the US commonly does. And about takedown requests to Google etc. MPAA and other "rights hold…

"MPAA and other "rights holders" do this frequently."

You don't have a free speech right to post the copyrighted material of others, just sayin'.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#28

Post by s73v3r_ »

hueving wrote: post #25
mark_edward wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When profits come up against morality, profits will win every time. How do you think we even got to this situation in the first place?

This is not true. There are a bunch of businesses that use there moral positions as advertising to great effect. This is why Apple doesn't sell away your data, why every city is filled with local and organic restaurants, etc. The market does select for moral positions, you just might not like those positions.

In that case, though, the moral position is part of what brings them additional profits.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#29

Post by tombh »

Whilst I think there's some merit in the recent increase in China articles here. The tone of this one seems sensational. What I find most intriguing about discovering China is what it says about me and the so-called West. China's influence is growing you say? My first reaction is concern, but my second is humility, as if looking in a mirror. I can't help but feel a little like this article immaturely criticises a topic that it never has an intention to understand. The entire premise of being able to so easily stir such ominous sentiment betrays the existence of the elephant in the West's room: Western power is so taken for granted we no longer know how to treat it as a privilege. It's embarrassing, in fact I think we have, at the very least, a responsibility to be embarrassed, that unironic, one-sided criticism of China is culturally acceptable. This is not at all to imply that China doesn't represent the absolute worst of human behavior, I'm not naïve. It's to say that the conversation about China is really the stirrings of a new awakening in the West's self-understanding.

Re: China is trying to police what people are saying about it around the world

#30

Post by justicezyx »

incompatible wrote: post #24
mirimir wrote: post #15

This is rather biased against China. OK, so Chinese authorities have arrested citizens who have posted "illegal" material. I don't see that they've grabbed citizens of other countries off the streets, which the US and Israel have done. Or pressed other countries to extradite their citizens based on criminal allegations, which the US commonly does. And about takedown requests to Google etc. MPAA and other "rights hold…

Gui Minhai, citizen of Sweden, was kidnapped in Thailand and secretly imprisoned in China.

citation please
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