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Surfers three times more likely to have antibiotic-resistant bacteria in guts

eurekalert.org

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Re: Surfers three times more likely to have antibiotic-resistant bacteria in guts

#21

Post by arkades »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #17
arkades wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...because patients with CF have hypotonic secretions in the lungs, resulting in mucous plugging, and the inhalation of a hypertonic solution into the same space would cause a fluid shift that would dilute the aforementioned mucous... which is to say, it’s an empirically-verified intervention with a solid grounding in the underlying pathophysiology. Whereas just eating sea salt has absolutely nothing to do with any o…

It is a mental model that assumes that CF is something in the lungs. This is not true. It is throughout the body, but especially impacts epidermal tissue, which includes both lung tissue and skin. Surfers are not just inhaling salty sea air. They are immersed in salt water and absorbing it through their skin. Plus people with CF are medically prescribed a high salt diet, so your assertion isn't really accurate. Consu…

It’s not a mental model that CF is something in the lungs; it’s a treatment aimed at the pulmonary manifestations of the disease. No one is positing that saline inhalations are going to preserve pancreatic function, but that’s not because they forgot about the pancreas.

People with CF get a high salt diet because the same transporter defect causes an inability to reclaim sodium from sweat. This results in an inability to regulate water content, causing a hypovolemia. It’s not a “treatment modality” in that it directly treats the CF. It mitigates one consequence of CF: losing excess salt in sweat. That has nothing to do with dietary salt intake affecting the course of the disease generally.

And I don’t know where you got the information that surfers are absorbing salt through their skin. As far as I know (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0167273892..., https://ac.els-cdn.com/S0022202X15470599/1-s2.0-S0022202X154..., http://www.comprehensivephysiology.com/WileyCDA/CompPhysArti...) that’s not a thing, but if you have any sources to the contrary I’d be interested in reading them.

Re: Surfers three times more likely to have antibiotic-resistant bacteria in guts

#22

Post by DoreenMichele »

whatshisface wrote: post #19
DoreenMichele wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a mental model that assumes that CF is something in the lungs. This is not true. It is throughout the body, but especially impacts epidermal tissue, which includes both lung tissue and skin. Surfers are not just inhaling salty sea air. They are immersed in salt water and absorbing it through their skin. Plus people with CF are medically prescribed a high salt diet, so your assertion isn't really accurate. Consu…

>Quality of salt It's not on its face impossible for sea and rock salt to differ in trace minerals, but be aware that the salt itself is the same in both. From the medical stuff you mentioned it sounds like it's the salt itself that's having the beneficial effect and not the other minerals. Although, I do see an oft-overlooked wrinkle to it: the costs of these minor changes are so small that the odds that there might…

I think the other trace minerals matter. But I also think simply consuming kosher or canning and pickling salt is better than consuming standard table salt.

Standard table salt typically has iodine added. It also has a chemical added to make it pour easier. This may not have a notable impact on a healthy person, but if you genetically misprocess various things and are medically prescribed a high amount of salt, that double whammy seems significant to me. You are consuming a lot of these extra chemicals and no one is questioning what that does to an already wonky physiology.

I no longer purchase Celtic Sea Salt. It is no longer necessary. But I still avoid standard table salt and favor brands that list sea salt as an ingredient.

Re: Surfers three times more likely to have antibiotic-resistant bacteria in guts

#23

Post by DoreenMichele »

arkades wrote: post #21
DoreenMichele wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a mental model that assumes that CF is something in the lungs. This is not true. It is throughout the body, but especially impacts epidermal tissue, which includes both lung tissue and skin. Surfers are not just inhaling salty sea air. They are immersed in salt water and absorbing it through their skin. Plus people with CF are medically prescribed a high salt diet, so your assertion isn't really accurate. Consu…

It’s not a mental model that CF is something in the lungs; it’s a treatment aimed at the pulmonary manifestations of the disease. No one is positing that saline inhalations are going to preserve pancreatic function, but that’s not because they forgot about the pancreas. People with CF get a high salt diet because the same transporter defect causes an inability to reclaim sodium from sweat. This results in an inabilit…

What can be absorbed through the skin depends on various factors: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_(skin)

People with CF are prone to aquagenic wrinkling. In layman's terms, they get extremely pruney when they bath. This suggests they absorb the water at a higher rate than is normal due to their genetic disorder impacting epidermal function.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamadermatology/fullarticle...

No one is positing that saline inhalations are going to preserve pancreatic function, but that’s not because they forgot about the pancreas.

What I recall reading is that when people with CF surfed, their general prognosis was overall better. So if no one is positing that it has any impact on pancreatic function, then it seems to me they are viewing the data in highly selective terms and assuming it only impacts lung function and nothing else when the data does not suggest that.

Granted, I haven't dug deeply into the original data because it wasn't important to me. I was only trying to understand the positive results I was getting for my own edification. My recollection is the study was done in Australia if you want to try to find it.

I will add that it isn't actually necessary to prove people with CF absorb it through the skin. The article we are discussing states that surfers swallow a great deal more sea water than swimmers, 10x iirc. So surfers are, in fact, consuming sea salt.

Re: Surfers three times more likely to have antibiotic-resistant bacteria in guts

#24

Post by npunt »

computator wrote: post #18
clueless123 wrote: post #7

Unfortunately, I do not need to see a study to know that the waters near Lima (Where I live & surf) are full of crap.. That said, the healthy effects of the exercising on the sea must counteract the bacteria, because I don't know a healthier group than the surfing community around here.

> The healthy effects of the exercising on the sea must counteract the bacteria, because I don't know a healthier group than the surfing community around here. You're making a conclusion about cause and effect. It might be the case that the majority of people who take up surfing are extremely healthy since it's a physically demanding sport.

Exactly, the only people who’d continue surfing would be the ones whose immune systems could cope with the shock. If you kept getting sick after surfing you’d probably quit pretty quickly.

Re: Surfers three times more likely to have antibiotic-resistant bacteria in guts

#25

Post by tim333 »

rhodysurf wrote: post #11
clueless123 wrote: post #7

Unfortunately, I do not need to see a study to know that the waters near Lima (Where I live & surf) are full of crap.. That said, the healthy effects of the exercising on the sea must counteract the bacteria, because I don't know a healthier group than the surfing community around here.

Yea same. Anecdotal but my surfer friends and I are seemingly never sick but other people I interact with are sick more often.

It seems possible that exposure to bacteria in the water in small doses builds the bodies immune system to deal with those making subsequent problems less likely.

Re: Surfers three times more likely to have antibiotic-resistant bacteria in guts

#26

Post by rcpt »

aresant wrote: post #13

No coastal surf break that's close to civilization is safe from bacteria infestation but it is manageable. BUT sewage regulation can go a long, long way - take a look at the San Diego bacteria report http://www.sdbeachinfo.com - the regularly sampled coastal water is in general pretty good even though there was rain in SoCal last week. Meanwhile less than 30 miles away the surf breaks next to Tijuana, Mexico are extr…

That sewage is gross but the waves that break right near the outflow look ass kicking https://youtu.be/gcMqr_vbInI

Re: Surfers three times more likely to have antibiotic-resistant bacteria in guts

#27

Post by scardine »

mirimir wrote: post #14
ekianjo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing that doctors can get away with NOT disclosing any of that information when prescribing any medicine to patients. I would certainly want to know what they get from X when they prescribe a certain drug with other alternatives around.

As I understand it, they don't get paid for prescribing stuff. Rather, they get paid for persuading other physicians to prescribe stuff. Through speaking fees, payments for putting their name on favorable publications, and so on.

In Brazil they are forbidden by regulation to take money directly for prescribing stuff but pharmaceutical companies are allowed to sponsor their trip for a medical conference in Hawai and other subtle bribery. How they know who deserves that? There are companies devoted to gather this kind of information - source: used to be IT manager for a pharmaceutical company.

Re: Surfers three times more likely to have antibiotic-resistant bacteria in guts

#29

Post by s0rce »

mirimir wrote: post #14
ekianjo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing that doctors can get away with NOT disclosing any of that information when prescribing any medicine to patients. I would certainly want to know what they get from X when they prescribe a certain drug with other alternatives around.

As I understand it, they don't get paid for prescribing stuff. Rather, they get paid for persuading other physicians to prescribe stuff. Through speaking fees, payments for putting their name on favorable publications, and so on.

And free lunch from drug reps

Re: Surfers three times more likely to have antibiotic-resistant bacteria in guts

#30

Post by el_benhameen »

rcpt wrote: post #26
aresant wrote: post #13

No coastal surf break that's close to civilization is safe from bacteria infestation but it is manageable. BUT sewage regulation can go a long, long way - take a look at the San Diego bacteria report http://www.sdbeachinfo.com - the regularly sampled coastal water is in general pretty good even though there was rain in SoCal last week. Meanwhile less than 30 miles away the surf breaks next to Tijuana, Mexico are extr…

That sewage is gross but the waves that break right near the outflow look ass kicking https://youtu.be/gcMqr_vbInI

Imperial Beach is supposed to have one of the best beach breaks in San Diego county besides Black’s, but even the mayor got sick from surfing it. Major bummer.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/environment/sd-me-t...

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