Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

forbes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 99 posts

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#21

Post by test6554 »

numbsafari wrote: post #7
bklyn11201 wrote: post #4

My alternate headline: GOP Tax Plan will force institutions to alter graduate tuition accounting Tuition waivers are currently used, especially in the science disciplines, to have outside research grant dollars pay for grad-student tuition. If this tax plan passes, tuition waivers would no longer make sense and the dollars from research grants would need to shift. This probably means lower tuition for certain program…

Exactly. Personally, I'd like to see a balanced approach: shift some of the money to increase those laughable stipends into something livable, and put the rest where it belongs: on admin costs. The shell game universities are playing is part of the problem. Hopefully, if this change makes it into the final bill, Universities do the right thing and don't stick it to their Grad Students.

Can you elaborate more on what is going on at universities?

Are you saying that grant money comes in for research, but gets funneled back to the university through tuition?

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#23

Post by sorrymate »

JonFish85 wrote: post #5

No, it won't. The sensationalism all around is just infuriating; I know it's basically politics in a nutshell, but this sort of crap is getting really old. It's not going to destroy higher education; it might raise the bar a bit of who goes to graduate school, and force schools to do more to entice top tier talent to come to their school, but it's not going to destroy it.

Can you provide any specific details on how the new suggested tax plan will raise the bar? It seems as though we should be encouraging Graduate and PhD students. It seems as though it would force additional students into taking out loans if their tuition is not waived?

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#24

Post by madcaptenor »

lewis500 wrote: post #20

I don't understand this. During my PhD my "scholarship" was just basically the university choosing not to charge me money. It's not as though I sat down and set on fire $20k worth of paper every year. So now they have to pay tax on to the amount they would have otherwise charged me? Isn't that kind of a hypothetical concept? Like, can't they say, "Oh the tuition for the civil engineering PhD program is now zero"? Vir…

I've got a PhD in math. I've been wondering this too. I remember that one of the institutions that accepted me, said, in the acceptance letter, that my offer was worth something like $60k a year ($20k in actual stipend and $40k in tuition I wouldn't be paying). That was good for a laugh then, but it would have actual meaning now.

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#25

Post by sliverstorm »

numbsafari wrote: post #7
bklyn11201 wrote: post #4

My alternate headline: GOP Tax Plan will force institutions to alter graduate tuition accounting Tuition waivers are currently used, especially in the science disciplines, to have outside research grant dollars pay for grad-student tuition. If this tax plan passes, tuition waivers would no longer make sense and the dollars from research grants would need to shift. This probably means lower tuition for certain program…

Exactly. Personally, I'd like to see a balanced approach: shift some of the money to increase those laughable stipends into something livable, and put the rest where it belongs: on admin costs. The shell game universities are playing is part of the problem. Hopefully, if this change makes it into the final bill, Universities do the right thing and don't stick it to their Grad Students.

Why do research grants belong paying admin costs?

I thought they were for, you know, conducting research. (Yet apparently most universities already take something like a 50% cut)

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#26

Post by kurthr »

blakesterz wrote: post #9

So the plan is... >> Under the new GOP tax plan, however, those tuition waivers would be taxed as regular income... Sensationalist headlines aside... Why is this being targeted in the new tax plan? Usually I can find something with a quote from someone that explains.

Well, if you have to ask... because Education, the Elite (not the rich, those are fine), and Science are bad. They interfere with accumulation of stagnant wealth and power.. along with election prospects.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/09/opinion/sunday/trump-epa-...

Also, they cause people to question biblical authority.

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#27

Post by burkaman »

JonFish85 wrote: post #5

No, it won't. The sensationalism all around is just infuriating; I know it's basically politics in a nutshell, but this sort of crap is getting really old. It's not going to destroy higher education; it might raise the bar a bit of who goes to graduate school, and force schools to do more to entice top tier talent to come to their school, but it's not going to destroy it.

"raise the bar" is a little misleading. It won't raise the bar in terms of talent, it'll raise the bar in terms of how rich your parents need to be.

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#28

Post by theli0nheart »

derekp7 wrote: post #18
theli0nheart wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my brief assessment, it seems like tuition waivers are a form of barter. Other forms of bartering are taxable, so they're eliminating this exception.

As for bartering being taxable, I wonder how employee-only discounts at retail establishments work? Is the discount amount taxable (or should it be taxable)? From my understanding of research tuition waivers, the PhD student is working for the university, and as an employee is getting a steep discount on the product (education) they normally sell.

> As for bartering being taxable, I wonder how employee-only discounts at retail establishments work? Is the discount amount taxable (or should it be taxable)?

I just looked this up on the IRS Employer's Tax Guide to Fringe Benefits [1], and it looks like only discounts on products that are less than gross profit margin are income tax exempt. E.g, if you sell a Widget for $10 and make $2 profit on every sale, you can provide a $2 discount to the employee, and then deduct that $2 from the employee's wages.

Furthermore, employees that are 5% owners or that make more than $120,000 are unable to claim any employee discount deduction.

[1]: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p15b.pdf (p10)

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#29

Post by sharemywin »

sorrymate wrote: post #23
JonFish85 wrote: post #5

No, it won't. The sensationalism all around is just infuriating; I know it's basically politics in a nutshell, but this sort of crap is getting really old. It's not going to destroy higher education; it might raise the bar a bit of who goes to graduate school, and force schools to do more to entice top tier talent to come to their school, but it's not going to destroy it.

Can you provide any specific details on how the new suggested tax plan will raise the bar? It seems as though we should be encouraging Graduate and PhD students. It seems as though it would force additional students into taking out loans if their tuition is not waived?

or stop pursuing a graduate degree and go get a job making 30k-50k or more working in industry.

Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education

#30

Post by turc1656 »

lewis500 wrote: post #20

I don't understand this. During my PhD my "scholarship" was just basically the university choosing not to charge me money. It's not as though I sat down and set on fire $20k worth of paper every year. So now they have to pay tax on to the amount they would have otherwise charged me? Isn't that kind of a hypothetical concept? Like, can't they say, "Oh the tuition for the civil engineering PhD program is now zero"? Vir…

This is similar in concept to how debt forgiveness works. Generally (there are exceptions), debt that was defaulted on gets taxed as though it was income because it was planned/expected to be income for the creditor, upon which taxes would be paid.

It's also similar to how other non-monetary transactions are treated in the tax code. For example - bartering. Legally, if I agree to fix your roof if you repair my vehicle, that is, under the law, a taxable event. It's just that such things are very hard to enforce in that kind of situation.

This is essentially applying the same concept. It's not hypothetical. Something of value is being received/transferred. That is a taxable event, but here it is much easier to enforce because there are numerous records proving that it occurred.

Post reply on HN