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Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

theguardian.com

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Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#21

Post by brad0 »

andy_wrote wrote: post #16
brad0 wrote: post #14

Half formed thought, but are today's superheroes last generation's Clint Eastwood/Steve McQueen/John Wayne?

I have sometimes looked at old cinema and wondered, "Why did they make so many Westerns?" I figure that in some decades people will be looking at our time and asking, "Why did they make so many superhero movies?"

I read recently that studios are making more movies aimed at the 50s+ female crowd. The movies are about being single woman and the dating scene at that age.

The reason they made these films is because the 60+ woman demographic is the highest spending right now. People want to see their own experiences reflected in cinema.

I can't join in my head how westerns were a reflection of young and middle aged males. Possibly it depends on the demographic?

ie: middle aged men stuck in a boring job and providing for a family makes them feel powerless. Seeing a strong male on his path gives him the feeling he desires.

So maybe it's not about reflection of experiences but rather an expression of the feelings the demographic wants to feel.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#22

Post by brad0 »

hguant wrote: post #19

I don't see how this is news. Alan Moore has been decrying and hating on superheroes for the entirety of his career, for largely the same reasons throughout. This is great when it's communicated through his work - showing what comics could be without superheroes, or critiquing the genre from within (Watchmen and Marvelman/Miracleman reboot come to mind), but his personal disdain for the consumers of his products is o…

I think his problem is more along the lines of:

Rather that an entire country or group of people getting angry because people in power are morally corrupt they're just watching the latest Iron Man and discussing pointless things like Art Direction and the Actresses Performance.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#23

Post by megaman22 »

brad0 wrote: post #21
andy_wrote wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have sometimes looked at old cinema and wondered, "Why did they make so many Westerns?" I figure that in some decades people will be looking at our time and asking, "Why did they make so many superhero movies?"

I read recently that studios are making more movies aimed at the 50s+ female crowd. The movies are about being single woman and the dating scene at that age. The reason they made these films is because the 60+ woman demographic is the highest spending right now. People want to see their own experiences reflected in cinema. I can't join in my head how westerns were a reflection of young and middle aged males. Possibly…

I think Westerns were relatively cheap to produce, at the time. Lots of open spaces to film in not far from Hollywood, lots of horses still easily obtainable, cheap costumes, not much in the way of special effects.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#24

Post by pmoriarty »

nnfy wrote: post #17

Perhaps comics are beginning to fill the void left by retreating religion. It is comforting to imagine a world in which things make sense, where good triumphs over evil, where you have an opportunity to be a part of something larger than yourself; especially when you're working a dead end job and you feel like your nation is falling apart. Unfortunately, unlike most religion, comics and comic based films are lacking…

"Unfortunately, unlike most religion, comics and comic based films are lacking in the "nutrition" that religious escapism can provide, in the way of community and self improvement, so we end up with man children withdrawing from society."

Rejection of society and worldly things, and withdrawal from them both has been a rather common practice in religions for millennia. Religious hermits and ascetics, and moralists escaping or otherwise rejecting corrupt society are a pretty regular staple of religions the world over.

Superheroes could be a seen to be a kind of echo of that, in so far as they are usually pretty moralistic and extreme in their world-rejection and escapism, if you prefer to view it that way.

Something of that speaks to their fans, who are also greatly dissatisfied with the world, yet usually don't have what it takes to escape, so they escape vicariously -- through their movies, comics, and books where live heroes that can.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#25

Post by mc32 »

tboyd47 wrote: post #9

I think he's overstating Marvel/DC's cultural significance. The new generation of viewers have a very different moral sensibility. The evil is much more shockingly evil, but the good is less cartoonish and more relatable, and therefore more vulnerable. I just finished watching the new Stranger Things season. One of the things I love about that show is that it juxtaposes the 1980s kids' sci-fi genre with a storyline t…

His lament seems to be the cartoonish worlds were for kids to indulge in, while they formed ideals of good and bad, etc. However, today's comics audience is a mature audience seeking escapism rather than one forming its moral compass.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#26

Post by B1FF_PSUVM »

andy_wrote wrote: post #16
brad0 wrote: post #14

Half formed thought, but are today's superheroes last generation's Clint Eastwood/Steve McQueen/John Wayne?

I have sometimes looked at old cinema and wondered, "Why did they make so many Westerns?" I figure that in some decades people will be looking at our time and asking, "Why did they make so many superhero movies?"

> so many superhero movies

That's overlooking the plague of zombie stories since the turn of the century. They were pretty rare, and then, boom, you can't move without bumping into one of the things.

My pet theory is that we're reduced to beating up the dead because they can't complain.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#27

Post by pmoriarty »

andy_wrote wrote: post #16
brad0 wrote: post #14

Half formed thought, but are today's superheroes last generation's Clint Eastwood/Steve McQueen/John Wayne?

I have sometimes looked at old cinema and wondered, "Why did they make so many Westerns?" I figure that in some decades people will be looking at our time and asking, "Why did they make so many superhero movies?"

"Why did they make so many superhero movies?"

The thing is we didn't. Hollywood did. A gigantic industry devoted to churning out movies designed in some Hollywood exec's mind to make the most money possible. That's why we have so much crap.

Why is today's crap superhero crap and yesterday's Western crap? Probably because people just got bored of Westerns. Some day Westerns will be back in style. What's old will be new again.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#28

Post by brad0 »

B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #26
andy_wrote wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have sometimes looked at old cinema and wondered, "Why did they make so many Westerns?" I figure that in some decades people will be looking at our time and asking, "Why did they make so many superhero movies?"

> so many superhero movies That's overlooking the plague of zombie stories since the turn of the century. They were pretty rare, and then, boom, you can't move without bumping into one of the things. My pet theory is that we're reduced to beating up the dead because they can't complain.

I had a good laugh at your theory. Every other person cannot be bad so we have to attack things that are mindless.

I guess you can put aliens and AI robots in that theory as well. Except both of those have the potential to be understood.

Zombies can't be cured! Our only choice is to kill them! My Conscience is Free!

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#29

Post by humanrebar »

Moore says:

> I would also observe that it is, potentially, culturally catastrophic to have the ephemera of a previous century squatting possessively on the cultural stage and refusing to allow this surely unprecedented era to develop a culture of its own, relevant and sufficient to its times.

And Tolkien said:

> There was Greek, and Celtic, and Romance, Germanic, Scandinavian, and Finnish [mythology] (which greatly affected me); but nothing English, save impoverished chap-book stuff. Of course there was and is all the Arthurian world, but powerful as it is, it is imperfectly naturalized, associated with the soil of Britain but not with English; and does not replace what I felt to be missing.

I see "comic book" universes as evolving into a modern mythology, complete with monsters, heroes, and gods. So I would disagree with Moore about the merits of comic book stories. They may be "squatting" on the cultural stage, but maybe the same way that King Arthur and Ulysses do.

I expect, in a thousand years, when Superman and Wolverine are aged and in the public domain, the parallels between them and Beowulf and (non-Marvel) Odin will be even more clear.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#30

Post by [deleted] »

brad0 wrote: post #22
hguant wrote: post #19

I don't see how this is news. Alan Moore has been decrying and hating on superheroes for the entirety of his career, for largely the same reasons throughout. This is great when it's communicated through his work - showing what comics could be without superheroes, or critiquing the genre from within (Watchmen and Marvelman/Miracleman reboot come to mind), but his personal disdain for the consumers of his products is o…

I think his problem is more along the lines of: Rather that an entire country or group of people getting angry because people in power are morally corrupt they're just watching the latest Iron Man and discussing pointless things like Art Direction and the Actresses Performance.

[deleted]
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