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Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

theguardian.com

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Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#11

Post by insickness »

Theodores wrote: post #3

It sounds like Alan Moore has had enough of the media and journalists. Well meaning that they may be individually they are collectively like a passive-aggressive narcissist eager to latch on to the slightest thing to bring the man down. It sounds to me that he just wants to get out of this abusive relationship and get on with his life. The point of the article - that there is something weird about grown adults and th…

> it has been much too easy to hide away and watch these comic super-hero movies than endure what has been going on in the world.

The same could be said of literally any fantasy fiction. We love it precisely because it is an escape from reality.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#12

Post by agumonkey »

brad0 wrote: post #10
Theodores wrote: post #3

It sounds like Alan Moore has had enough of the media and journalists. Well meaning that they may be individually they are collectively like a passive-aggressive narcissist eager to latch on to the slightest thing to bring the man down. It sounds to me that he just wants to get out of this abusive relationship and get on with his life. The point of the article - that there is something weird about grown adults and th…

I agree with your points. Our modern society is so complex that for a lot of people it is easier to use escapism as a form of relief. While I agree that all people should be learning and growing I would have to argue that if someone is truly motivated by hiding away I say let them. The people who do this do not have the capacity to expose themselves to reality IMO. Being forced to do it is just like when you were for…

It's complex but also nonsensical. Lots of young adults report scam jobs as reason why they don't work (not slacker kind of avoidance).

It's a bit a cancerous era IMO. Too many uncertainties, too many technical possibilities, not enough social tissue.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#13

Post by jv22222 »

Theodores wrote: post #3

It sounds like Alan Moore has had enough of the media and journalists. Well meaning that they may be individually they are collectively like a passive-aggressive narcissist eager to latch on to the slightest thing to bring the man down. It sounds to me that he just wants to get out of this abusive relationship and get on with his life. The point of the article - that there is something weird about grown adults and th…

> talk about how great the acting, story and everything else was, as if it was serious art that they had seen.

IMHO Luke Cage and Jessica Jones by Marvel on Netflix are very well done on every level and compare well to other high quality drama series.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#15

Post by remir »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #5
Theodores wrote: post #3

It sounds like Alan Moore has had enough of the media and journalists. Well meaning that they may be individually they are collectively like a passive-aggressive narcissist eager to latch on to the slightest thing to bring the man down. It sounds to me that he just wants to get out of this abusive relationship and get on with his life. The point of the article - that there is something weird about grown adults and th…

Could it be because the kids who these stories were initially aimed at, grew up and became adults, DC/Marvel realised they could “adultify” the plots and appeal to the same audience now 20-30 years older to expand their demographic leveraging nostalgia and thus make more money?

Yep. It is quite apparent in the latest Batman vs Superman movie.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#16

Post by andy_wrote »

brad0 wrote: post #14

Half formed thought, but are today's superheroes last generation's Clint Eastwood/Steve McQueen/John Wayne?

I have sometimes looked at old cinema and wondered, "Why did they make so many Westerns?" I figure that in some decades people will be looking at our time and asking, "Why did they make so many superhero movies?"

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#17

Post by nnfy »

Perhaps comics are beginning to fill the void left by retreating religion.

It is comforting to imagine a world in which things make sense, where good triumphs over evil, where you have an opportunity to be a part of something larger than yourself; especially when you're working a dead end job and you feel like your nation is falling apart.

Unfortunately, unlike most religion, comics and comic based films are lacking in the "nutrition" that religious escapism can provide, in the way of community and self improvement, so we end up with man children withdrawing from society.

It is ironic, I think, that the waning of religion in the first world may be very much double sided. Perhaps we as a society are not prepared for secularism, and this may manifest as a moral crisis wherin people on average still require external guidance for morality and ethics.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#18

Post by brad0 »

agumonkey wrote: post #12
brad0 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your points. Our modern society is so complex that for a lot of people it is easier to use escapism as a form of relief. While I agree that all people should be learning and growing I would have to argue that if someone is truly motivated by hiding away I say let them. The people who do this do not have the capacity to expose themselves to reality IMO. Being forced to do it is just like when you were for…

It's complex but also nonsensical. Lots of young adults report scam jobs as reason why they don't work (not slacker kind of avoidance). It's a bit a cancerous era IMO. Too many uncertainties, too many technical possibilities, not enough social tissue.

> not enough social tissue

Bang on. I think technology (not just the internet kind) has advanced so quickly that none of our social conventions have been able to keep up to help people.

I believe both the democrats and republicans have lost their way a bit - they'll both be spending their time playing big-data social media games to get in power rather than actually trying to give things people want and need.

> scam jobs

While I do believe that this is true, I wonder how much of this is caused because after college is the first time these kids are exposed to the "real world". They've been so insulated their entire life that the older adults see that they can easily manipulate them.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#19

Post by hguant »

I don't see how this is news. Alan Moore has been decrying and hating on superheroes for the entirety of his career, for largely the same reasons throughout. This is great when it's communicated through his work - showing what comics could be without superheroes, or critiquing the genre from within (Watchmen and Marvelman/Miracleman reboot come to mind), but his personal disdain for the consumers of his products is odd to me.

This has been a half formed thought bouncing around in my head, but I think part of the reason for the resurgence of comic books and superheroes is the simple fact that we live in a complex world where there are very few instances of Good and Evil. We live in a subtle, complex, and nuanced world, where if you take the time to dig in to an issue, you find more complexity...and a lot of really morally compromised people. We don't live in a Good/Evil world, but we want to. I think that comics are a retreat from that, a mental/moral bulwark that gives us an outlet for our need for Right and Wrong. We might not be able to figure out without coming to blows, but we sure as hell can agree that Thanos is a piece of shit, and that Batman is wicked cool.

Is this a retreat from reality? Sure, but we need that. Moore is wrong here to suppose that adults need to be doing Adult Things at all times. The world is hard enough as it is - taking a few hours respite from it is hardly a crime.

Re: Superheroes a 'cultural catastrophe', says comics guru Alan Moore [2014]

#20

Post by pmoriarty »

tboyd47 wrote: post #9

I think he's overstating Marvel/DC's cultural significance. The new generation of viewers have a very different moral sensibility. The evil is much more shockingly evil, but the good is less cartoonish and more relatable, and therefore more vulnerable. I just finished watching the new Stranger Things season. One of the things I love about that show is that it juxtaposes the 1980s kids' sci-fi genre with a storyline t…

Don't sell 80's viewers short. Many of us put up with, and sometimes even enjoyed, the pap that was fed to us by the TV networks back then, but that doesn't mean that's what we preferred. That's just all we had, created by people who grew up on media from the 50's and 60's.

The media of today is often created by the very people who were dissatisfied with what was available to us back in the 80's. It'll be interesting to see what people dissatisfied with the media of today come up with in another 30 years.

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