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Five-Year-Olds Can Learn Calculus (2014)

theatlantic.com

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Re: Five-Year-Olds Can Learn Calculus (2014)

#21

Post by roceasta »

jonnybgood wrote: post #2

I have no doubt they can. There's so much negative cultural conditioning towards mathematics by eliciting negative emotions that it's ridiculous (i.e. math is scary, math is hard, math is for smart people, etc.). I believe kids who excel at math is not due to them being smarter but due to the bypassing of the cultural conditioning. The bypassing can be due to the parents, teachers, some mentor, or their particular fa…

The fact that school math is thought to be 'scary' and 'hard' is not the issue. Plenty of video games are known to be scary and hard. For instance, they contain monsters and are difficult to complete. They even have objective grades (scores).

What makes the difference is that video games aren't compulsory. So they represent true play. Which is what makes them educational, unlike a school curriculum, however much it is tweaked. Well, until something more fun than video games arrives on the scene...

Re: Five-Year-Olds Can Learn Calculus (2014)

#22

Post by briandear »

So if we block third party tracking, the Atlantic doesn’t let you see the article?

Why are we still allowing the Atlantic on HN? I understand paywalling, but they actually block content if you refuse to let them track you. Seeing an ad and consent to track are two very different things.

Re: Five-Year-Olds Can Learn Calculus (2014)

#23

Post by smcl »

DenisM wrote: post #18
xupybd wrote: post #15

I can't agree with this more. I hated math as a kid, I could learn the concepts very quickly but was prone to silly errors. So I'd fail many tests and I thought I was bad at math and shouldn't bother with it. Later doing an Engineering degree I found out math was this amazing tool that could help you model systems and do amazing things. The practice I got while solving interesting problems helped me learn to stop mak…

The best way to learn math is to study physics. Or engineering, as in your case.

Maybe we can generalise - the best way to learn an abstract concept is to learn how applies to a discipline you find interesting.

Re: Five-Year-Olds Can Learn Calculus (2014)

#24

Post by kirillzubovsky »

As someone who struggled with math early on, but then persevered through an Engineering degree, I agree with this 100%.

Math is often presented to kids as a hard challenge to overcome. Instead, math is actually just a language that helps people talk about particular subject matter faster than they would otherwise. You don't need to solve equations in order to understand how math concepts work, and for a lot of people that would already be a 10x improvement.

Shout out to - https://jumpmath.org - I interned for them in college and John Mighton made a great series of books to help kids learn math. They are not quite as playful or advanced as this article suggests, but rather simple concepts explained in simple terms, then repeated in different ways. From memory, it was especially useful for kids who thought they were bad at math, and struggled to catch up to their classmates.

Re: Five-Year-Olds Can Learn Calculus (2014)

#25

Post by khedoros1 »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #3

I'm not even sure.. arithmetic really needs learned as much anymore... as a dev I rarely use my times table... if I need to calculate something I'll pull up a console and go into a repl and just ask php or ruby to calculate it for me... I know HOW the calculation works and why, but I don't need to know and remember times tables. I like the idea of thinking outside the box on how to teach math and science, as I feel m…

As a dev, I use my multiplication tables pretty constantly, especially for quick estimates using approximate numbers. I probably didn't need to know them as early as I did...

Re: Five-Year-Olds Can Learn Calculus (2014)

#26

Post by chii »

roceasta wrote: post #21
jonnybgood wrote: post #2

I have no doubt they can. There's so much negative cultural conditioning towards mathematics by eliciting negative emotions that it's ridiculous (i.e. math is scary, math is hard, math is for smart people, etc.). I believe kids who excel at math is not due to them being smarter but due to the bypassing of the cultural conditioning. The bypassing can be due to the parents, teachers, some mentor, or their particular fa…

The fact that school math is thought to be 'scary' and 'hard' is not the issue. Plenty of video games are known to be scary and hard. For instance, they contain monsters and are difficult to complete. They even have objective grades (scores). What makes the difference is that video games aren't compulsory. So they represent true play . Which is what makes them educational, unlike a school curriculum, however much it…

There are some aspects of doing math that isn't fun, because it is grinding. Learning the time tables for example - you just have to do lots of exercises to get used to multiplying. No way around that.

Just like in sports, where you must also do a lot of basic practise to get good.

Making the practise like a game can be done to done degree, but ultimately, a kid is going to see through that after a while, since it gets boring.

Re: Five-Year-Olds Can Learn Calculus (2014)

#27

Post by jonnybgood »

roceasta wrote: post #21
jonnybgood wrote: post #2

I have no doubt they can. There's so much negative cultural conditioning towards mathematics by eliciting negative emotions that it's ridiculous (i.e. math is scary, math is hard, math is for smart people, etc.). I believe kids who excel at math is not due to them being smarter but due to the bypassing of the cultural conditioning. The bypassing can be due to the parents, teachers, some mentor, or their particular fa…

The fact that school math is thought to be 'scary' and 'hard' is not the issue. Plenty of video games are known to be scary and hard. For instance, they contain monsters and are difficult to complete. They even have objective grades (scores). What makes the difference is that video games aren't compulsory. So they represent true play . Which is what makes them educational, unlike a school curriculum, however much it…

I'm not disagreeing with you. 'Scary' and 'hard' becomes an issue when that's all that's being said about math. Video games are 'scary' and 'hard' but... they're also fascinating and fun. The popular math narrative is incomplete unlike video games. Why is that? Dr. Eugenia Cheng says it much better and has a good answer as to why [1].

[1] http://www.pbs.org/video/math-is-amazing-and-we-have-to-star...

Re: Five-Year-Olds Can Learn Calculus (2014)

#28

Post by chii »

jpamata wrote: post #16
jonnybgood wrote: post #2

I have no doubt they can. There's so much negative cultural conditioning towards mathematics by eliciting negative emotions that it's ridiculous (i.e. math is scary, math is hard, math is for smart people, etc.). I believe kids who excel at math is not due to them being smarter but due to the bypassing of the cultural conditioning. The bypassing can be due to the parents, teachers, some mentor, or their particular fa…

It's amazing how much this cultural conditioning can affect one's aptitude towards math. When I used to help my brother with his maths, he would oftentimes complain about not being smart enough. Shortly after, he would give up on the problem and come up with a rudimentary solution just to have an output. On these occasions, I'd prod him to solve the problem, ask him about his approach, probe his mental process, and m…

I think kids see those exercise problems as arbitrary and therefore unmotivated to do them. I dunno if there's any way of making then interesting and or relevant to motivate kids to do em.

I suspect curiosity is of paramount importance, and that curiosity is not fostered in school about math.

Re: Five-Year-Olds Can Learn Calculus (2014)

#29

Post by chii »

csydas wrote: post #5
gremlinsinc wrote: post #3

I'm not even sure.. arithmetic really needs learned as much anymore... as a dev I rarely use my times table... if I need to calculate something I'll pull up a console and go into a repl and just ask php or ruby to calculate it for me... I know HOW the calculation works and why, but I don't need to know and remember times tables. I like the idea of thinking outside the box on how to teach math and science, as I feel m…

The how is what is supposed to be being taught to children at the moment and why the math classes are shifting away from times tables and such. Rote memorization doesn't produce as good of a result as understanding how the calculations work on more intuitive level. I can't find it at the moment since I'm in the metro with poor connection but there was an article about how geometry was taught in such a way to teach ki…

The move away from rote can have an unexpected draw back. Fast mental estimation requires rote learning , otherwise you draw a blank. over-reliance on tooling like calculators have made mental skills like that decrease over the years.

Re: Five-Year-Olds Can Learn Calculus (2014)

#30

Post by pishpash »

jonnybgood wrote: post #2

I have no doubt they can. There's so much negative cultural conditioning towards mathematics by eliciting negative emotions that it's ridiculous (i.e. math is scary, math is hard, math is for smart people, etc.). I believe kids who excel at math is not due to them being smarter but due to the bypassing of the cultural conditioning. The bypassing can be due to the parents, teachers, some mentor, or their particular fa…

They bypass conditioning because they are smarter and are good at it. Who do you think are the people who espouse anti-intellectual drivel like "math is scary" or "math is uncool"? Hint: not the smart people.
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