The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills • Hacker News Board

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#21

Post by cortesoft » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 4:57 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #18

cortesoft wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the fundamental problem of treating healthcare like any other market distributed good; you just don't have the ability to use consumer choice. People using an emergency room are not in a position to negotiate price or seek an alternative service. An unconcious accident victim can't say, "That price is crazy I am going to the hospital across town." Single payer is the only viable solution.

"Single payer is the only viable solution. " That's not true. Plenty of European systems are not single payer and work fine.

I am not familiar with these alternate systems; how do they work?

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#22

Post by coreyp_1 » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 4:57 PM UTC

I am having problems with my insurer at this very moment. I went to an in-network hospital for an ER visit, which turned into an 8-day stay (yes, it was serious). Evidently, none of the doctors at the hospital are in-network, however, (claims from various technicians are still "in processing", so I don't know how they will turn out) despite the fact that the hospital itself is definitely in-network. I had no choice as to what doctors came in, and, yes, I can now see them billing $600 for a 1-minute visit ($600 per visit, & they came every morning).

This is ludicrous! I have insurance, & still this will completely drain me financially. I'm at the point where I almost think it would be easier to declare bankruptcy and start over!

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#23

Post by ProAm » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

istorical wrote: post #10

rwmj wrote: post #4

Over here (in Europe) we get the impression that US has such a crazy healthcare system. Why aren't people marching in the streets? Is it not as crazy as it sounds for most users? If you're taken to ER how are you supposed to know if the doctors are all part of "your network" (whatever that even means)?

Because those in the middle and upper class have employer-paid health insurance which protects from the worst of bills. You only go bankrupt if you're uninsured and usually only those in the lower-middle or lower class are uninsured. And those in the lower echelon of society economically are those least able to have the time or money to march or lobby for change.

> You only go bankrupt if you're uninsured

This is absolutely not true [1]

[1] http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#24

Post by wnevets » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #4

Over here (in Europe) we get the impression that US has such a crazy healthcare system. Why aren't people marching in the streets? Is it not as crazy as it sounds for most users? If you're taken to ER how are you supposed to know if the doctors are all part of "your network" (whatever that even means)?

socialism is bad, most americans stop thinking at the point until it affects them directly.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#25

Post by Frondo » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #15

pascalxus wrote: post #3

So, basically, if you visit any emergency room then your handing them a blank Check and they can write whatever number on there they want. That's egregious beyond belief. I'm never one to call for legislation and price controls, but in the face of such adversity, I think it may be our last hope. I think they should either provide a quote before they offer the services or there should be a law limiting the amount that…

This is the fundamental problem of treating healthcare like any other market distributed good; you just don't have the ability to use consumer choice. People using an emergency room are not in a position to negotiate price or seek an alternative service. An unconcious accident victim can't say, "That price is crazy I am going to the hospital across town." Single payer is the only viable solution.

Or if you're dying, literally dying on the spot, and the ER is the only way to save your life, what are you supposed to do? Go try and shop around?

More to the point...is this the America we want to live in?

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#26

Post by occultist_throw » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #4

Over here (in Europe) we get the impression that US has such a crazy healthcare system. Why aren't people marching in the streets? Is it not as crazy as it sounds for most users? If you're taken to ER how are you supposed to know if the doctors are all part of "your network" (whatever that even means)?

Unfortunately, We've tried. It does little good.

This last Saturday, there was a peaceful protest of around 200 people held in DC in front of Congress. One of my friends attended this protest. Around 150 of them were arrested, and then given bullshit charges, like crowding, obstructing, incommoding, or resisting arrest (of what charge were they being arrested for, angering Trump...).*

When you try to "peacably protest", and "redress the government for a redress of grievances" and are arrested, detained for 6 hours, and then given a $25 citation of 'crowding' - what else do you do? Molotov Cocktails? AR-15's?

The answer, unfortunately, is nothing. You keep your job, eat decent food, and live a life under whomever the current 'king' is. And hope to the gods that nothing knocks you down to a lower socioeconomic ladder rung.

* https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-ar...

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#27

Post by empath75 » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

istorical wrote: post #10

rwmj wrote: post #4

Over here (in Europe) we get the impression that US has such a crazy healthcare system. Why aren't people marching in the streets? Is it not as crazy as it sounds for most users? If you're taken to ER how are you supposed to know if the doctors are all part of "your network" (whatever that even means)?

Because those in the middle and upper class have employer-paid health insurance which protects from the worst of bills. You only go bankrupt if you're uninsured and usually only those in the lower-middle or lower class are uninsured. And those in the lower echelon of society economically are those least able to have the time or money to march or lobby for change.

I just spent over a year and countless phone calls arguing with the hospital over bills for the birth of my son. We had two employer paid insurance companies and HRA, and they still managed to send us to collections until we threatened to take them to court. They eventually sent us a refund of $600.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#28

Post by chimeracoder » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #16

istorical wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those in the middle and upper class have employer-paid health insurance which protects from the worst of bills. You only go bankrupt if you're uninsured and usually only those in the lower-middle or lower class are uninsured. And those in the lower echelon of society economically are those least able to have the time or money to march or lobby for change.

"You only go bankrupt if you're uninsured" With copays and out of network stuff a lot of people will go bankrupt in case of a serious illness.

> With copays and out of network stuff a lot of people will go bankrupt in case of a serious illness.

By law, those are capped for people with insurance. The maximum that you will have to pay out-of-pocket can be no more than about $7,000, and many private plans set the cap at a lot less.

$7,000 is a non-trivial amount, but it's not a large number of people that both are insured and can't afford their out-of-pocket maximum without bankruptcy.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#29

Post by godot » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 4:59 PM UTC

istorical wrote: post #10

rwmj wrote: post #4

Over here (in Europe) we get the impression that US has such a crazy healthcare system. Why aren't people marching in the streets? Is it not as crazy as it sounds for most users? If you're taken to ER how are you supposed to know if the doctors are all part of "your network" (whatever that even means)?

Because those in the middle and upper class have employer-paid health insurance which protects from the worst of bills. You only go bankrupt if you're uninsured and usually only those in the lower-middle or lower class are uninsured. And those in the lower echelon of society economically are those least able to have the time or money to march or lobby for change.

I went to ER a couple of months ago for a relatively minor issue and stayed for a few hours total. This was in-network hospital, doctors and so on. Purely by co-pays this ended up being a ~$800 bill after all the insurance kicked in.

If I didn't have a comfy software engineer salary, and instead lived paycheck to paycheck, this would've been devastating, even with insurance.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#30

Post by myke_cameron » Mon, Jul 24, 2017, 4:59 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #16

istorical wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those in the middle and upper class have employer-paid health insurance which protects from the worst of bills. You only go bankrupt if you're uninsured and usually only those in the lower-middle or lower class are uninsured. And those in the lower echelon of society economically are those least able to have the time or money to march or lobby for change.

"You only go bankrupt if you're uninsured" With copays and out of network stuff a lot of people will go bankrupt in case of a serious illness.

Not to mention the historical "lifetime limits", which only since the ACA have been lifted. You could have an unimaginable great plan with a huge network and no deductible, but an extended hospital would still bankrupt you.