Rust's 2017 Roadmap • Hacker News Board

Re: Rust's 2017 Roadmap

#21

Post by sevensor » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 9:05 PM UTC

Manishearth wrote: post #6

DeepYogurt wrote: post #3

Don't change the language to make it easier (unless that can be a free lunch), but get someone doing a "Today in rust" or "Doing X in rust" blog/vlog. Also please get some sort of RNG into the main language (not as a crate).

Any particular reason rng must be in the stdlib? It's an "official" crate, maintained by the Rust developers. In general Rust tries to keep things out of its stdlib instead opting for crates. It lets these evolve independently of the stdlib (not tied to rustc releases), and also lets them have their own versioning (none of that urllib2 urllib3 nonsense)

It's a battery people are pretty well used to seeing included in a language. POSIX even mandates one for C. For repeatable simulation work you might want something more robust, and hopefully everybody knows it's no use for crypto, but it's a handy thing to have around if you need to flip a digital coin.

Re: Rust's 2017 Roadmap

#22

Post by adamnemecek » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 9:05 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #16

adamnemecek wrote: post #13

> Plans include a new book, You should consider publishing an official, printed book. I would totally pay $30-40 for something like this. And once it's already written, the actual publishing shouldn't be too time consuming (but idk lol). I think that there's a lot of people who'd buy it just to support the project. On one hand, I do have environmental concerns, but on the other hand, I feel like my retention rate wit…

It will be printed by No Starch.

Lol, you guys are way ahead of me. And nostarch too.

Re: Rust's 2017 Roadmap

#23

Post by Animats » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 9:05 PM UTC

Manishearth wrote: post #7

steveklabnik wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What advantage would putting an RNG into the language do? Are there any languages where an RNG is a language construct?

I think they mean stdlib. RNG is not in the language for any language I can think of.

It's in BASIC, as RND(). The usual Basic RNG is good enough for games, but not good enough for crypto.

Re: Rust's 2017 Roadmap

#24

Post by wyldfire » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 9:05 PM UTC

XorNot wrote: post #14

Manishearth wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any particular reason rng must be in the stdlib? It's an "official" crate, maintained by the Rust developers. In general Rust tries to keep things out of its stdlib instead opting for crates. It lets these evolve independently of the stdlib (not tied to rustc releases), and also lets them have their own versioning (none of that urllib2 urllib3 nonsense)

I would say random numbers are a fairly core programming construct for a standard library. They're important, difficult to get right, and have huge implications if you get them wrong.

But given how easy/simple/common it is to depend on a crate, what practical problem would it solve for it to be in libstd? Maybe it's difficult for the community to identify the anointed RNG?

Re: Rust's 2017 Roadmap

#25

Post by steveklabnik » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 9:07 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #18

adamnemecek wrote: post #13

> Plans include a new book, You should consider publishing an official, printed book. I would totally pay $30-40 for something like this. And once it's already written, the actual publishing shouldn't be too time consuming (but idk lol). I think that there's a lot of people who'd buy it just to support the project. On one hand, I do have environmental concerns, but on the other hand, I feel like my retention rate wit…

Rust needs a Rust book not written by the Rust developers. "Rust for Dummies", if you will.

There are multiple already, including an in-progress one by O' Reilly. I've also heard rumors of another one getting started as well.

Re: Rust's 2017 Roadmap

#26

Post by ainar-g » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

Does the "lower learning curve" goal include the lowering of learning curve for people who already know how to program? Because right now, the Book sometimes seems like it's aimed for people who either didn't program a lot, or didn't program in a language with types.

What I actually would like is a few "Books" like "Rust for C++ people", "Rust for Go people", etc. Those would describe in many examples how things that are achieved in language X using A, B, and C can be done with D in Rust.

Personally, I would like a "Rust for Gophers" book that would describe things like how does Rust do composing (that is, how to do what Go calls embedding), interfaces in Rust (with dynamic vs static dispatch), HTTP in Rust (this may be waiting for Tokio?), how to model your application's types and not get into who-owns-what traps.

Also, what I really want is some kind of a list of Rust "warts" and their explanation. Like the fact that sometimes you can't do a.b().c(), but have to write tmp = a.b(); tmp.c().

Re: Rust's 2017 Roadmap

#27

Post by gcp » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #18

adamnemecek wrote: post #13

> Plans include a new book, You should consider publishing an official, printed book. I would totally pay $30-40 for something like this. And once it's already written, the actual publishing shouldn't be too time consuming (but idk lol). I think that there's a lot of people who'd buy it just to support the project. On one hand, I do have environmental concerns, but on the other hand, I feel like my retention rate wit…

Rust needs a Rust book not written by the Rust developers. "Rust for Dummies", if you will.

There's several external books. I started from this one (via Safari):

https://www.amazon.com/Programming-Rust-Fast-Systems-Develop...

Re: Rust's 2017 Roadmap

#28

Post by agmcleod » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

moosingin3space wrote: post #12

vvanders wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used VSCode, you have to pick the GNU abi and install a couple plugins but it works reasonably well.

I think VS Code is what the community is rallying around to become the flagship cross-platform Rust IDE, with intellij-rust as the second choice.

Ive found Atom to be better in terms of having the lint as you go. RustyCode is pretty good though otherwise :). I'm interested to see where the debugging goes with it as well.

Re: Rust's 2017 Roadmap

#29

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

moosingin3space wrote: post #12

vvanders wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used VSCode, you have to pick the GNU abi and install a couple plugins but it works reasonably well.

I think VS Code is what the community is rallying around to become the flagship cross-platform Rust IDE, with intellij-rust as the second choice.

[deleted]

Re: Rust's 2017 Roadmap

#30

Post by yarrel » Mon, Feb 06, 2017, 9:09 PM UTC

moosingin3space wrote: post #12

vvanders wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used VSCode, you have to pick the GNU abi and install a couple plugins but it works reasonably well.

I think VS Code is what the community is rallying around to become the flagship cross-platform Rust IDE, with intellij-rust as the second choice.

Ugh.