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Make America Hate Again

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Re: Make America Hate Again

#21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works similarly to paradigms in science. Most of the time people don't actually define paradigms; it's implicit in the general experience of being a researcher. People similarly have a commonsense understanding of what hate, bigotry, and racism are. This works fine when everyone agrees, but once a field reaches a crisis, once you have a political climate so violently polarized, it stops working to appeal to peop…

So we're back to specifically having to point out why discriminating based on, say, race, is not a good idea? Good grief.

No, everyone knows racism is obviously bad. What we're back to is having to prove that what the opponent is proposing actually constitutes racism.

One argument I hear is that Islam is fundamentally incompatible with the West's values, that immigrants from those countries don't integrate well, and that the dangerous ideas within Islam aren't limited to radical fundamentalists. Under this view, a temporary ban is not necessarily a bad idea, nor is it necessarily racist except in the literal sense.

I disagree with this — I think the perfectly reasonable people from those countries need to be shown compassion, not to be lumped in with their oppressors — but the discussion should be about that, not who can scream "racist" louder.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vouched it and it went back onto the front page, but it got promptly flagged away again. :-(

Yep. Sadly, it seems HN may be getting overrun by Trump apologists. Where's the next good place to be after HN gets gaslighted to not knowing the meaning of words?

[deleted]

Re: Make America Hate Again

#23

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

>I know what "hate" means

Do you though? If you can't distinguish the difference between fear of the unknown and hatred, then you are fortunate enough to never have experienced hatred.

Since everyone likes to compare Trump and Hitler. Hitler hated the Jews, which resulted in genocide. I've talked to several people who support what he did with the ban and it has nothing to do with hating Muslims or immigrants and its all driven by fear (statistically irrational) of attacks like the ones in Germany.

I vote against allowing children to drive not because I hate them, but because I fear the thought of them driving on the same road as me. Do you see the difference?

Re: Make America Hate Again

#24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we're back to specifically having to point out why discriminating based on, say, race, is not a good idea? Good grief.

No, everyone knows racism is obviously bad. What we're back to is having to prove that what the opponent is proposing actually constitutes racism. One argument I hear is that Islam is fundamentally incompatible with the West's values, that immigrants from those countries don't integrate well, and that the dangerous ideas within Islam aren't limited to radical fundamentalists. Under this view, a temporary ban is not n…

> No, everyone knows racism is obviously bad.

No, everyone knows racism is ostracised. Plenty people cherish it. And now that there is less stigma with racist president in charge, they come out of closets.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#25
post #4
post #2

I agree with his stance on this, and I think Trump and his latest executive orders are awful, but I also think that at this point, "hatred," "bigotry," and "racism" should be excised from public discourse. These are labels. No one really knows what "hate" means anymore, but because people are emotional, they see the word, recall what they think of Trump, and think, "yeah, that's hateful!" This is a problem for two re…

Calling something/someone racist works on the principle that it's an undesired trait in society. However Trump's supporters either believe that other races/religions are inferior or believe their concerns are more important and ignore it. So what can someone do if they want to combat inequality/injustice/etc? It's not like their opponents are arguing with an open mind.

Or they don't believe they are being racist? Closing borders to some Muslim dominated countries while leaving them open to the largest Muslim countries in the world does give the impression that maybe it's not about being Muslim and it's more about nations.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#26
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we're back to specifically having to point out why discriminating based on, say, race, is not a good idea? Good grief.

No, everyone knows racism is obviously bad. What we're back to is having to prove that what the opponent is proposing actually constitutes racism. One argument I hear is that Islam is fundamentally incompatible with the West's values, that immigrants from those countries don't integrate well, and that the dangerous ideas within Islam aren't limited to radical fundamentalists. Under this view, a temporary ban is not n…

I agree. Labelling all people from entire countries as not eligible to enter your country is, by definition, racist.

I don't see how that is not clear. I thought it was clear. I thought people defending these executive orders think it's all fine and good to basically blacklist entire countries and every person on earth who is a citizen of those countries.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vouched it and it went back onto the front page, but it got promptly flagged away again. :-(

Yep. Sadly, it seems HN may be getting overrun by Trump apologists. Where's the next good place to be after HN gets gaslighted to not knowing the meaning of words?

>gaslighted

Let's not use that term here. It's just an appeal to ridicule dressed up as something meaningful.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#28
post #25
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling something/someone racist works on the principle that it's an undesired trait in society. However Trump's supporters either believe that other races/religions are inferior or believe their concerns are more important and ignore it. So what can someone do if they want to combat inequality/injustice/etc? It's not like their opponents are arguing with an open mind.

Or they don't believe they are being racist? Closing borders to some Muslim dominated countries while leaving them open to the largest Muslim countries in the world does give the impression that maybe it's not about being Muslim and it's more about nations.

Nations without Trump hotels.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#29
post #23

I know what "hate" means. I know what bigotry is, and I know what racism means. Don't you?

>I know what "hate" means Do you though? If you can't distinguish the difference between fear of the unknown and hatred, then you are fortunate enough to never have experienced hatred. Since everyone likes to compare Trump and Hitler. Hitler hated the Jews, which resulted in genocide . I've talked to several people who support what he did with the ban and it has nothing to do with hating Muslims or immigrants and its…

The consequence of a child not being allowed to drive and not allowing human to enter a country where they maybe have lived for years are a bit different though.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#30
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Sadly, it seems HN may be getting overrun by Trump apologists. Where's the next good place to be after HN gets gaslighted to not knowing the meaning of words?

>gaslighted Let's not use that term here. It's just an appeal to ridicule dressed up as something meaningful.

No attempt to ridicule here, just an attempt to convey a concept in one word.

Gaslighting, I think, means a kind of manipulation where seeds of doubt are gradually sown, questioning the targets' perception and sanity.

I still think it's a great word to use if someone tries to claim that banning entire countries and their citizens is not racist.

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