Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sorry, but I disagree. If someone refuses to bake a cake for gay people, I agree that is well within their rights. It is also my right to not buy a cake from them. This is not a bullying tactic, this is people exercising the same freedoms that Palmer is by having and supporting his views.
> If someone refuses to bake a cake for gay people, I agree that is well within their rights. Not in America in 2016, it ain't, bub. If you want a picture of the future, imagine the interstate commerce clause stomping on a human face, forever.
VR Devs Pull Support for Oculus Rift Until Palmer Luckey Steps Down
21–30 of 39 posts
Re: VR Devs Pull Support for Oculus Rift Until Palmer Luckey Steps Down
#22It boggles my mind that people think this is okay, but when a business that doesn't agree with gay marriage and won't bake a cake, it needs government intervention (as long as they don't refuse a gay person from purchasing any cake, it should be well within their rights). These developers are using bullying tactics to try to punish the Oculus developer for merely having an opinion. It only makes me want to vote for T…
> It's pretty hypocritical to attempt to stop what you think is bigotry and exclusion by doing the exact same thing to the people you don't like. Fighting bigotry and exclusion by refusing to do business with people and calling them out for it is absolutely reasonable. That said, it's a grey area. Eich getting forced out still leaves an unpleasant feeling with me. Sure, I think the argument of "marriage is between a…
No this is not reasonable in any way shape or form, this isn't fighting "bigotry" this is political prosecution regardless of how vile you might see their political views to be.
Democracy works when anyone can express their political voice without suffering for it. When your political voice comes with a hefty price it is effectively thought control.
P.S.
It is pretty ironic that the "left" especially in the US forgot what it had endured https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/28/college-apol...
Re: VR Devs Pull Support for Oculus Rift Until Palmer Luckey Steps Down
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's pretty hypocritical to attempt to stop what you think is bigotry and exclusion by doing the exact same thing to the people you don't like. Fighting bigotry and exclusion by refusing to do business with people and calling them out for it is absolutely reasonable. That said, it's a grey area. Eich getting forced out still leaves an unpleasant feeling with me. Sure, I think the argument of "marriage is between a…
>Fighting bigotry and exclusion by refusing to do business with people and calling them out for it is absolutely reasonable. No this is not reasonable in any way shape or form, this isn't fighting "bigotry" this is political prosecution regardless of how vile you might see their political views to be. Democracy works when anyone can express their political voice without suffering for it. When your political voice com…
> Democracy works when anyone can express their political voice without suffering for it.
I wouldn't advocate for violence or oppression of political beliefs. It's entirely valid to refuse to remain idle in the face of bigotry. If someone opens a shop up and puts up a sign that says "No gays" then I consider it entirely reasonable for a bunch of gay men to stand outside protesting, organize a boycott, etc...
Re: VR Devs Pull Support for Oculus Rift Until Palmer Luckey Steps Down
#24Re: VR Devs Pull Support for Oculus Rift Until Palmer Luckey Steps Down
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Fighting bigotry and exclusion by refusing to do business with people and calling them out for it is absolutely reasonable. No this is not reasonable in any way shape or form, this isn't fighting "bigotry" this is political prosecution regardless of how vile you might see their political views to be. Democracy works when anyone can express their political voice without suffering for it. When your political voice com…
I didn't say this was fighting bigotry, I said it's acceptable to refuse to do business with bigots and to call them out. > Democracy works when anyone can express their political voice without suffering for it. I wouldn't advocate for violence or oppression of political beliefs. It's entirely valid to refuse to remain idle in the face of bigotry. If someone opens a shop up and puts up a sign that says "No gays" then…
A proper action in this case would be to contact the authorities, write an opinion letter to a newspaper, organize a town meeting.
That said there is a huge difference between individual political activity and involving groups and businesses. I don't understand how people can call themselves liberal and effectively DOX people all the time and try to get them fired because they expressed a specific political view.
In this specific case I also find the fact that people claim that liking a post on twitter (a post in which BTW did not violate Twitter's own pretty strict anti-hate speech policy) is hate speech on its own to be quite disturbing, or amusing depending on your point of view.
But overall boycotts should ideally never be used in proper political discourse, they are antithetical to democracy, a boycott is the refusal to conduct a dialog, to hear any opposing opinion and to discuss things in a proper manner. It is effectively the "grown up" version of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling nananananana I can't hear you.
Overall "Trump" to some extent is the outcome of the current political climate, there are many liberals that still hold true liberal values that are scared shitless of what the left is doing, they look to the alt and see crazy nut jobs, the alt right has been dubbed as "closet racists", and the center is pretty much deserted. Partisanship and political extremism has pretty much taken over everything, and everything now is binary and almost bundled together if you don't support A+B+C you are X, and we hate X.
I really wonder what happened to the ideal of free speech and appreciating the fact that you can be "offended" and having your opinions challenged as a healthy sign of living in a pluralistic and free society.
Re: VR Devs Pull Support for Oculus Rift Until Palmer Luckey Steps Down
#26Meanwhile, the NYTimes has a story about Hillary's real, operational, online propaganda machine: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/23/us/politics/hillary-clinto... I can't help but wonder if the Nimble America story is being pushed to bury this.
Re: VR Devs Pull Support for Oculus Rift Until Palmer Luckey Steps Down
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Fighting bigotry and exclusion by refusing to do business with people and calling them out for it is absolutely reasonable. No this is not reasonable in any way shape or form, this isn't fighting "bigotry" this is political prosecution regardless of how vile you might see their political views to be. Democracy works when anyone can express their political voice without suffering for it. When your political voice com…
I didn't say this was fighting bigotry, I said it's acceptable to refuse to do business with bigots and to call them out. > Democracy works when anyone can express their political voice without suffering for it. I wouldn't advocate for violence or oppression of political beliefs. It's entirely valid to refuse to remain idle in the face of bigotry. If someone opens a shop up and puts up a sign that says "No gays" then…
If a group of black people said "No Whites", would you fight that?
Or if women opened a store (or a gym) and said "No Men"?
Or if Latinos started a scholarship fund and said "Only Latinos may apply"?
Would you call out racism if someone didn't support Ben Carson, or sexism if they opposed Carly Fiorina, or sexism if they joked about Trump's "hands"?
Re: VR Devs Pull Support for Oculus Rift Until Palmer Luckey Steps Down
#28This liberal McCarthyism is getting a little scary. Can't we just make cool shit and check the politics at the door?
Re: VR Devs Pull Support for Oculus Rift Until Palmer Luckey Steps Down
#29Facebook wants "regular people" to "hang out with each other" in VR. Facebook wants to own the movie theater, the mall, the billboards, the radio, and everything else, all at once, without having to buy real estate, so they can own 100% of global advertising, on the VR globe anyway. But regular people can't afford Facebook VR. Regular people make A hard plastic VR phone case with decent lenses is $10 and it's pretty damn convincing for that price.
The next cheapest VR is PS4, which is ~$700 all up, console and headset. Sony has a known name in the gaming space, a reputation for quality, and is the #1 console maker. People will buy this.
And then you have the PC VR, whether oculus or vive, $600-800 for the headset alone, and then over $1000 for a PC (because most people don't have a PC they can just plug a headset into, nor a PSU allowing them to just upgrade their GPU, etc, it requires a new unit for most.) -- and no killer apps.
So where are the devs going to go? Playstation has advanced graphics AND is difficult or impossible to pirate. Mobile has obscene penetration and people who don't play games and don't want to invest in gaming hardware have the ability to engage here.
I don't see Oculus having a good end regardless of decisions it can make.
Re: VR Devs Pull Support for Oculus Rift Until Palmer Luckey Steps Down
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If someone refuses to bake a cake for gay people, I agree that is well within their rights. Not in America in 2016, it ain't, bub. If you want a picture of the future, imagine the interstate commerce clause stomping on a human face, forever.
All the cases I've seen on that issue have been state-law cases, so the interstate commerce clause is completely irrelevant.