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Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#21

Post by blt »

malkia wrote: post #17
jwdunne wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High level of benzodiazepines is enough to kill off your inhibitions and short term memory. Mixed with alcohol, if you feel that way, there is nothing stopping you from taking your life. At 16, during an episode of depression and psychosis, I was trusted with a whole box of Lorazepam. Being in the state I was, I took the whole box. I have only fleeting images and I woke up the next day on a PICU. The not remembering…

I was prescribed some medication time ago, and it felt me the most depressed person, but I was aware that this must be the cause of it, and asked my doctor to stop it. The other medication was not that effective, as this one, but I no longer had the moods. I was feeling as if nothing really matter, but this time literally, not in some "grand scheme of things" way. I had to push myself somehow to do things. It could'v…

You are lucky it was only a medicine side effect. Many depressed people feel that way their entire lives.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#22

Post by amenod »

cortesoft wrote: post #20
madaxe_again wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"incoherent", "claiming to have been beaten up by police" http://archive.is/vBS6N I wouldn't call those incoherent - I'd call them distressed and angry at having been beaten up by the police. They say he hit his head on the cage separator - which is a classic cop write-up for after they've roughed you up.

It is also something that mentally distressed people on lots of drugs do. I think all of the evidence points to the official story being true.

To be (more) precise: no evidence points to the official story not being true. It could easily have been the cops' fault.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#23

Post by dpark »

madaxe_again wrote: post #16
jhardy54 wrote: post #4

I'm surprised the article didn't mention it, but check out the last page of the autopsy. They found chlordiazepoxide, diazepam, temazepam, and oxazepam in his bloodstream, which could have had some terrible interactions with alcohol. This sounds more to me like a drug overdose that caused a psychological episode than just the alcohol-fueled suicide they make it out to be. Very strange.

"incoherent", "claiming to have been beaten up by police" http://archive.is/vBS6N I wouldn't call those incoherent - I'd call them distressed and angry at having been beaten up by the police. They say he hit his head on the cage separator - which is a classic cop write-up for after they've roughed you up.

They're pretty incoherent. His retelling has a really jumbled timeline. Part of that might be missing context if he was replying to other tweets but they aren't linked. The ones that are linked don't look much better, though. His tweets to @jackstormwriter don't make much sense unless the archive somehow lost most of the ones from @jackstormwriter.

He also claimed that the police assaulted him at his own home, while reports indicate that he was not at his own home and was basically trying to break down the door, hence why the police were called. It seems likely he had a psychotic episode. This whole thing is tragic but I'm not sure it indicates abusive behavior from the police.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#24

Post by madaxe_again »

jhardy54 wrote: post #4

I'm surprised the article didn't mention it, but check out the last page of the autopsy. They found chlordiazepoxide, diazepam, temazepam, and oxazepam in his bloodstream, which could have had some terrible interactions with alcohol. This sounds more to me like a drug overdose that caused a psychological episode than just the alcohol-fueled suicide they make it out to be. Very strange.

From the autopsy, he did not die of an overdose, but rather of hanging - appears he looped the vacuum flex around the top bannister, then slid down the stairs until it cut off blood flow - "Cause of Death: Hanging".

That said, you're quite right that the cocktail he had in his system disinhibited him to the point of no return.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#25

Post by madaxe_again »

dpark wrote: post #23
madaxe_again wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"incoherent", "claiming to have been beaten up by police" http://archive.is/vBS6N I wouldn't call those incoherent - I'd call them distressed and angry at having been beaten up by the police. They say he hit his head on the cage separator - which is a classic cop write-up for after they've roughed you up.

They're pretty incoherent. His retelling has a really jumbled timeline. Part of that might be missing context if he was replying to other tweets but they aren't linked. The ones that are linked don't look much better, though. His tweets to @jackstormwriter don't make much sense unless the archive somehow lost most of the ones from @jackstormwriter. He also claimed that the police assaulted him at his own home, while…

He may well (in fact, probably was) beating at his neighbour's door in the first instance - but the second, you'll have to take their word for it.

If you read the autopsy, specifically about the blunt force trauma, either he put up on hell of a fight, or they did indeed paste him.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#26

Post by amenod »

mschuster91 wrote: post #15

> Your offensive inaccurate slavery imagery notwithstanding. Offensive, but, given two PoC shot dead in 48 hours by police, certainly not unfounded. Racism is deeply embedded in (US) police, and it deserves to be called out. > it seems plausible that he did assault officers, and that they did have a right to use force against him to end that assault Funny enough, British cops don't (need to) carry guns. German cops c…

Not that I don't agree with you, but there is this little thing of US citizens carrying guns which is far from customary in Europe... So I guess the US cops do operate in different environment.

That said, I don't condone police violence and think that in this day and age ALL work of the police should be on camera. Camera doesn't work? Get out of uniform right away, you are no longer a cop.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#27

Post by madaxe_again »

frandroid wrote: post #19
digi_owl wrote: post #10

Anything other than "yes masta, right away masta" can be considered "resisting arrest", sadly.

For the people downvoting the parent comment: After an officer pushed me flat down from a sitting position (at an impromptu, peaceful sit-in), another pushed his knee in my back, and started punching me in the ribs multiple times (eventually bruising one) and crying "he's resisting arrest!" until I summoned enough strength to push up a bit, release my right arm from under my body, and put it behind my own back, at wh…

If you read the autopsy it's absolutely consistent with pretty much exactly this - big bruise in the small of his back where someone dropped knee-first onto him, lots of smaller bruises on his shoulders, sides, and big bruises on his arms, where someone gripped him like a vice.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#28

Post by CydeWeys »

mschuster91 wrote: post #15

> Your offensive inaccurate slavery imagery notwithstanding. Offensive, but, given two PoC shot dead in 48 hours by police, certainly not unfounded. Racism is deeply embedded in (US) police, and it deserves to be called out. > it seems plausible that he did assault officers, and that they did have a right to use force against him to end that assault Funny enough, British cops don't (need to) carry guns. German cops c…

> Offensive, but, given two PoC shot dead in 48 hours by police, certainly not unfounded.

> Racism is deeply embedded in (US) police, and it deserves to be called out.

Ian Murdock is white. This isn't a "PoC" issue, and the colloquial slavery expressions are out of place and offensive. Yes, racism is an issue with US police, but it is unrelated to this occurrence and to this conversation.

And secondly, Ian was violently attempting to break into a neighbor's apartment by bashing down the front door. What exactly do you think should happen in such an instance? I'll tell you what I'd do -- I'd want the police to come as quickly as possible and deal with it, using whatever force is necessary to stop the in-progress home invasion, because if an intruder breaks through my door I have no choice but to shoot them until they're stopped, and I don't want that on my conscience. I don't have the skills or training to determine between mentally deranged people and killers, nor could I effectively or safely use non-lethal methods of self-defense.

I understand the points you're trying to make, but none of them are applicable to this specific situation, in which the police actions were entirely warranted. Put yourself in the shoes of the person whose home was being broken into, think about how scared that would make you especially if the attacker was a physically stronger person than you are. We need the police to stop violent crimes in progress, and they have to use violence in response. And hell, given that they didn't seriously injure him, it sounds like they used the right proportional amount of force as was necessary. Unlike possibly the two high profile fatal shootings in the news the past two days.

You've got to pick your battles. I don't think the Ian Murdock case is a good one.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#29

Post by madaxe_again »

CydeWeys wrote: post #12
digi_owl wrote: post #10

Anything other than "yes masta, right away masta" can be considered "resisting arrest", sadly.

Based on his state, it seems plausible that he did assault officers, and that they did have a right to use force against him to end that assault and take him into custody. Your offensive inaccurate slavery imagery notwithstanding.

It seems equally plausible, also based on his state, and on the oh-so-glorious track record of US police, that police officers did assault him, and used excessive force on a man who appears to have needed help rather than an impressive array of injuries and $25k bail.

Your offensive presumption of innocence of law enforcement notwithstanding.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#30

Post by blastrat »

amenod wrote: post #22
cortesoft wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also something that mentally distressed people on lots of drugs do. I think all of the evidence points to the official story being true.

To be (more) precise: no evidence points to the official story not being true. It could easily have been the cops' fault.

To be (more) nuanced: the truth is often somewhere in the middle, where a drug/alcohol infused psych patient acts like a complete jackass, and frustrated cops get sick of dealing with him and let him have a few knocks (which they should not do) and then lie about it (which they should not do) but it doesn't really change the underlying cause. Sometimes it does change the underlying cause, sometimes they kill somebody who would not otherwise have died, but in this case we are in all likelihood talking about a drug/alcohol infused psych patient who was behaving extremely erratically and there is enough evidence for him to have been the cause of his own demise, and no particular evidence that the cops were.

We can accept the outcome of this while in our minds leaving room for the idea that psych patients can be very difficult to deal with and they frequently and sadly do provoke abuse from the people we leave to look after them.

Think of it like resolving a dispute between two children, who socked who first etc. Sadly, that's what kids do and they lie about it, their statements are unreliable. Watching Judge Judy (!) gives good perspective on this, same sadly is true for adults, frequently both sides are lying, but outcomes that are just(-icey) enough can be determined

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