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Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#11

Post by protomyth »

jhardy54 wrote: post #4

I'm surprised the article didn't mention it, but check out the last page of the autopsy. They found chlordiazepoxide, diazepam, temazepam, and oxazepam in his bloodstream, which could have had some terrible interactions with alcohol. This sounds more to me like a drug overdose that caused a psychological episode than just the alcohol-fueled suicide they make it out to be. Very strange.

Not so strange, sadly. The combination of drugs and alcohol is an especially bad thing for people experiencing depression. HHS (which includes the CDC) has a lot of papers and studies on this sort of thing.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#12

Post by CydeWeys »

digi_owl wrote: post #10

Anything other than "yes masta, right away masta" can be considered "resisting arrest", sadly.

Based on his state, it seems plausible that he did assault officers, and that they did have a right to use force against him to end that assault and take him into custody. Your offensive inaccurate slavery imagery notwithstanding.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#13

Post by jwdunne »

protomyth wrote: post #11
jhardy54 wrote: post #4

I'm surprised the article didn't mention it, but check out the last page of the autopsy. They found chlordiazepoxide, diazepam, temazepam, and oxazepam in his bloodstream, which could have had some terrible interactions with alcohol. This sounds more to me like a drug overdose that caused a psychological episode than just the alcohol-fueled suicide they make it out to be. Very strange.

Not so strange, sadly. The combination of drugs and alcohol is an especially bad thing for people experiencing depression. HHS (which includes the CDC) has a lot of papers and studies on this sort of thing.

High level of benzodiazepines is enough to kill off your inhibitions and short term memory. Mixed with alcohol, if you feel that way, there is nothing stopping you from taking your life.

At 16, during an episode of depression and psychosis, I was trusted with a whole box of Lorazepam. Being in the state I was, I took the whole box. I have only fleeting images and I woke up the next day on a PICU. The not remembering is especially hard since I have quite a vivid memory - I seem to have lost those memories forever now, though I'm not sure if I want to remember.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#14

Post by pm90 »

gojomo wrote: post #8
mysterypie wrote: post #5

The suicide is tragic. However, no one seems to have investigated the police beatings he alleges he received the day before he died: "They beat the shit out of me twice," he says. Just look at the autopsy report under "BLUNT FORCE INJURIES" for all the bruises: https://regmedia.co.uk/2016/07/07/ian_murdock.pdf#page=10 The autopsy reports alcohol and sedative drugs, and friends and family report that he was breaking u…

People in such a binge/breakdown mental illness episode absolutely do misperceive interactions with others, imagining persecution when there is none. Or, blame their own self-harm on others. Or, continue raging against both people and objects in ways that endanger themself and others until nasty amounts of force are applied. You have to trust the reactions of the friends/family who have witnessed decades of a person'…

Resisting arrest and the other charges against him are pretty serious in the legal system in the US. I imagine the prospect of jail/probation and other consequences weighed down heavily on his mind; since he had already been in a pretty bad state with his breakup etc.

This is rather sad since it could definitely have been prevented. A network of close friends and family is absolutely necessary for people like Ian, who seemed to be of the solitary type (something I and I assume many others in this community can relate to). For such a person, problems with relationships can have deep emotional consequences...and this seems to have been a situation that spiraled out of control.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#15

Post by mschuster91 »

> Your offensive inaccurate slavery imagery notwithstanding.

Offensive, but, given two PoC shot dead in 48 hours by police, certainly not unfounded.

Racism is deeply embedded in (US) police, and it deserves to be called out.

> it seems plausible that he did assault officers, and that they did have a right to use force against him to end that assault

Funny enough, British cops don't (need to) carry guns. German cops carry guns, but it's rare that they have to be drawn, and even rarer that a shot is fired. Dito for Switzerland.

It's a major culture issue when US cops/people apparently tend to think of PoC as practice targets for shooting, when other countries, even with permissive gun laws (such as Switzerland), do not have such widespread issues with racism, police brutality and guns..

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#16

Post by madaxe_again »

jhardy54 wrote: post #4

I'm surprised the article didn't mention it, but check out the last page of the autopsy. They found chlordiazepoxide, diazepam, temazepam, and oxazepam in his bloodstream, which could have had some terrible interactions with alcohol. This sounds more to me like a drug overdose that caused a psychological episode than just the alcohol-fueled suicide they make it out to be. Very strange.

"incoherent", "claiming to have been beaten up by police"

http://archive.is/vBS6N

I wouldn't call those incoherent - I'd call them distressed and angry at having been beaten up by the police. They say he hit his head on the cage separator - which is a classic cop write-up for after they've roughed you up.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#17

Post by malkia »

jwdunne wrote: post #13
protomyth wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so strange, sadly. The combination of drugs and alcohol is an especially bad thing for people experiencing depression. HHS (which includes the CDC) has a lot of papers and studies on this sort of thing.

High level of benzodiazepines is enough to kill off your inhibitions and short term memory. Mixed with alcohol, if you feel that way, there is nothing stopping you from taking your life. At 16, during an episode of depression and psychosis, I was trusted with a whole box of Lorazepam. Being in the state I was, I took the whole box. I have only fleeting images and I woke up the next day on a PICU. The not remembering…

I was prescribed some medication time ago, and it felt me the most depressed person, but I was aware that this must be the cause of it, and asked my doctor to stop it. The other medication was not that effective, as this one, but I no longer had the moods.

I was feeling as if nothing really matter, but this time literally, not in some "grand scheme of things" way. I had to push myself somehow to do things.

It could've been something else, but it coincided and stopped days after I started taking that medication.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#18

Post by madaxe_again »

mordocai wrote: post #6
mysterypie wrote: post #5

The suicide is tragic. However, no one seems to have investigated the police beatings he alleges he received the day before he died: "They beat the shit out of me twice," he says. Just look at the autopsy report under "BLUNT FORCE INJURIES" for all the bruises: https://regmedia.co.uk/2016/07/07/ian_murdock.pdf#page=10 The autopsy reports alcohol and sedative drugs, and friends and family report that he was breaking u…

I don't know enough about it to comment on it myself, but I saw comments elsewhere that apparently bruises appearing post mortem are quite common and those people appeared to think that was the likely cause of the bruises indicated in the autopsy. Found where I read those comments and it has also been updated: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4rlar5/official_repo...

You don't get abrasions post-mortem, however, and if it were post-mortem bruising, you'd expect it in parts of his body that were lower than others. Having bruises and abrasions on his front, back, sides and face is not a natural thing that happens after death. It's a thing that happens when you're roughed up - if you read the autopsy report there are a variety of injuries that you'd have to try pretty hard to inflict on yourself, but are absolutely consistent with being beaten and thrown to the ground, and then having someone dead-drop knee-first into your back.

Honestly, I understand him killing himself. In the same scenario, potentially facing 15-25 years in prison for a felony (being white would likely help keep him out of jail, but being a geek with aspergers would not), I would likely do the same, as in the US there is no life after prison.

This is interesting, actually - unsurprisingly, the US is the most punitive place on earth if you assault a cop, although I can't see how you could assault a cop in the US, given that they're armed to the teeth and usually in full armour, and usually sat in an armoured and armed vehicle.

http://www.hopesandfears.com/hopes/city/city_index/215849-ci...

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#19

Post by frandroid »

digi_owl wrote: post #10

Anything other than "yes masta, right away masta" can be considered "resisting arrest", sadly.

For the people downvoting the parent comment:

After an officer pushed me flat down from a sitting position (at an impromptu, peaceful sit-in), another pushed his knee in my back, and started punching me in the ribs multiple times (eventually bruising one) and crying "he's resisting arrest!" until I summoned enough strength to push up a bit, release my right arm from under my body, and put it behind my own back, at which point the officer stopped punching and crying. I was not resisting arrest, but the fact that my arm was pinned under my own body was enough to make the claim. Oh yeah, they smashed my glasses too.

Re: Autopsy reveals Debian founder committed suicide

#20

Post by cortesoft »

madaxe_again wrote: post #16
jhardy54 wrote: post #4

I'm surprised the article didn't mention it, but check out the last page of the autopsy. They found chlordiazepoxide, diazepam, temazepam, and oxazepam in his bloodstream, which could have had some terrible interactions with alcohol. This sounds more to me like a drug overdose that caused a psychological episode than just the alcohol-fueled suicide they make it out to be. Very strange.

"incoherent", "claiming to have been beaten up by police" http://archive.is/vBS6N I wouldn't call those incoherent - I'd call them distressed and angry at having been beaten up by the police. They say he hit his head on the cage separator - which is a classic cop write-up for after they've roughed you up.

It is also something that mentally distressed people on lots of drugs do.

I think all of the evidence points to the official story being true.

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