Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is the cause of this? Computer automation? More work can be done by paralegal? Fewer court cases?
Peak legal. Automation is affecting discovery and the demand for the junior lawyers that used to do it, but there just isn't the demand growth to keep up with the supply growth of lawyers.
An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
21–30 of 146 posts
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#22It seems that the story is a that a once upwards spiral is now spiraling downwards, and people and institutions must adjust. At one point in time, law was lucrative, and there were not enough lawyers. Schools responded by growing in size and in tuition. Students could justify the loans because there was a high chance that the "investment" would pay off. Fast forward a few decades and law as an industry is contracting…
However, pricing power appears limited, creating a ceiling on wage increases. To this point, Vault100 firms have recently trickled out pay increases to $180K/year for incoming associates. Clients have laughed and said, "Good for your employees, but you're not passing those costs onto us!" [0]
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#23Obviously not for your big Oracle vs. Google lawsuits or where the entire company is riding on it, but for anything less than that. For example, every public company gets sued by opportunists every time there's a merger or acquisition, or every patent troll expects nobody to fight their case because it's so expensive. There's lots of little things that come up where you just need someone to do the paperwork.
It seems like you could hire a couple broke lawyers to fight patent trolls, and the cost wouldn't run into millions when your attorney books a ton of hours.
I've considered using paralegals to write up paperwork to be reviewed by an actual lawyer. But it seems like there should be a 'cheap broke lawyer' option in between the two, who would probably do a fine job.
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is the cause of this? Computer automation? More work can be done by paralegal? Fewer court cases?
Mostly automation. E-Discovery companies have dramatically reduced the cost for discovery. It used to require a room full of lawyers to discover evidence but now it is possible to have one person in a room full of computers to automate 10 such cases.
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#25I still think certain professional careers will always exist for the most passionate and high quality candidates (or, alas, the best connected).
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#26Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#27That was such a frustrating article. I kept reading anecdote after anecdote hoping to find out why the American economy needs fewer lawyers than it used to. They never explained it. Is it a software automation thing?
One paragraph in the article gets at what's been happening: "With big-firm jobs drying up, however, many of these graduates began competing for lower-paying spots at midsize firms, which also downsized, and certain government jobs they wouldn’t have sought in an earlier era."
I don't quite think of it as the American economy actually needing fewer lawyers than it used to. Rather, for a period of maybe a couple of decades (I think beginning with the 1980s business boom, so roughly 1985-2005) the biggest law firms enjoyed unusual success with the business model I refer to above. I think we're seeing a kind of correction where the legal profession is starting to look more like it was before the 1980s.
In some ways I think there may be more interesting opportunities for lawyers now. I see a lot of lawyers with a few years' experience establishing solo or boutique-firm practices in specialized areas that I don't think would have been as viable a couple of decades ago. Someone commented that you should only go to law school if you go to 'Harvard or Yale', but I am not sure that is what I'd take from recent developments. However, if your goal is to get a job in a big elite firm after graduating from law school, opportunities for those who didn't go to one of the top national schools (not limited to Harvard and Yale of course) are no doubt more reduced than 10 or 20 years ago.
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#28(Hint: Good law schools don't care about GPA. Do well on the LSAT and all is forgiven.)
Want to get a job? Law is all about selling knowledge. You have to show that you actually know something beyond the bar. Sit down and become an expert on something. Publish a few papers. Get your name out. That's what worked for me. Becoming a recognized expert in a very narrow law+technology field opened doors that were firmly shut to bare-bones law grads.
And.. learn to speak properly. Too many law schools are letting grads slide through with poor grammar. It might sound trivial but is really important when you are claiming to actually know something.
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#29It seems that the story is a that a once upwards spiral is now spiraling downwards, and people and institutions must adjust. At one point in time, law was lucrative, and there were not enough lawyers. Schools responded by growing in size and in tuition. Students could justify the loans because there was a high chance that the "investment" would pay off. Fast forward a few decades and law as an industry is contracting…
It's tempting to counter by citing the "lucrative" special case: The top 5-10% of T14 law schools who receive entry-level associate salaries of $160K/year base + bonus. However, pricing power appears limited, creating a ceiling on wage increases. To this point, Vault100 firms have recently trickled out pay increases to $180K/year for incoming associates. Clients have laughed and said, "Good for your employees, but yo…
In biglaw, i have friends who easily work 2500-3000 hours a year to make their billable hours requirement. So these salaries are not exact as great as one would think anyway
Re: An Expensive Law Degree, and No Place to Use It
#30I wonder if there are any stats on the wages of law professors? Seems they would trend down? Do recent grads teach first year law classes?