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Fasting-like Diet Reduces Multiple Sclerosis Symptoms
21–30 of 40 posts
Re: Fasting-like Diet Reduces Multiple Sclerosis Symptoms
#22Ramadan is coming :) 20+ hours fasting for 30 days :)
PM me your location so I can get lots of people to eat in front of you for 20+ hours for 30 days :)))))
Re: Fasting-like Diet Reduces Multiple Sclerosis Symptoms
#23Ramadan is coming :) 20+ hours fasting for 30 days :)
~17 hrs in London in the first day.
Besides, never seen anyone loosing weight during Ramadan. Many eat from iftar to sunrise non-stop.
Re: Fasting-like Diet Reduces Multiple Sclerosis Symptoms
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. It's not absolute fasting, although I do that some times. I've been doing alternate-day fasting or a 3/5 diet, for around 6-8 months at a time, for the last several years because it makes me feel better . There was a great program on the BBC[1] about "fasting-like diets", which generally consist of extreme caloric restriction for some time -- where what counts as "extreme" and "some time" varies from programme to…
What's a 3/5 diet?
I guess eat for 5 days don't eat for 3? I've heard more often of the 5:2 diet though.
Re: Fasting-like Diet Reduces Multiple Sclerosis Symptoms
#25Isn't this obvious to anyone who follows that diet autoimmune disease? Also adrenal hormones increase during fasting, as can be commonly seen with high cortisol levels in those who fast. "All disease begins in the gut," as someone wise has said in the past.
So what kind of diet cures, say, type I diabetes?
Re: Fasting-like Diet Reduces Multiple Sclerosis Symptoms
#26The Swank diet and later the McDougall diet have been halting and sometimes slightly regressing MS symptoms in most cases, for decades now. The Swank diet in particular, has kept people alive with the disease for 34 years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ5NGLM1k90
> The Swank diet in particular, has kept people alive with the disease for 34 years.
It's not an achievement to keep people with MS alive. People with MS have an average life expectancy that is very close to that of healthy people (literature varies between a couple of months http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1069023/ and several years, with 7 being the highest that I've seen http://www.nationalmssociety.org/What-is-MS/MS-FAQ-s). It's the quality of life that sucks for MS patients.
Uninformed statements like these make you sound even more snake oily than you already sound.
Re: Fasting-like Diet Reduces Multiple Sclerosis Symptoms
#27This seems pretty likely to be placebo effect, at least in the human trials which are the only parts of the paper I read. The paper cited [0] pre-registered on clinicaltrials.gov [1] -- which is great and everyone in the field should do so. However, looking at what they pre-registered, we have: - Two different diet treatment regimes: fasting-like for 3 months followed by Mediterranean diet (FMD), and ketogenic diet (…
There is a somewhat interesting philosophical question here. What does it mean for this result to be the 'placebo effect'? That is, supposing it is in some sense caused by the psyche, and fasting reliably produces that effect...is there a sense in which fasting is not its cause? Clearly for sugar pill vs drug we can measure the component which is 'placebo'. But here, since it is immeasurable...is it possible to call…
>fasting reliably produces that effect
First, one study doesn't tell us that fasting "reliably" produces this effect. Secondly, if it was a placebo effect then fasting would not reliably produce it. You would likely be able to produce no placebo effect by telling patients that there will very likely be no effect whatsoever on their symptoms.
>But here, since it is immeasurable...is it possible to call it a placebo effect?
If it is a placebo effect, you would probably be able to measure it by testing various other non-fasting diets. The difficulty lies in the inability to have a sham fasting diet, but you could likely mitigate that by telling patients there will likely be no effect on their symptoms from fasting.
Re: Fasting-like Diet Reduces Multiple Sclerosis Symptoms
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a somewhat interesting philosophical question here. What does it mean for this result to be the 'placebo effect'? That is, supposing it is in some sense caused by the psyche, and fasting reliably produces that effect...is there a sense in which fasting is not its cause? Clearly for sugar pill vs drug we can measure the component which is 'placebo'. But here, since it is immeasurable...is it possible to call…
>fasting reliably produces that effect First, one study doesn't tell us that fasting "reliably" produces this effect. Secondly, if it was a placebo effect then fasting would not reliably produce it. You would likely be able to produce no placebo effect by telling patients that there will very likely be no effect whatsoever on their symptoms. >But here, since it is immeasurable...is it possible to call it a placebo ef…
Placebos work even when you know[1]
[1] http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/placebos-w...
Re: Fasting-like Diet Reduces Multiple Sclerosis Symptoms
#29Food is so yesterday!
Why all the downvotes? You can't handle a joke?! So pathetic!
Re: Fasting-like Diet Reduces Multiple Sclerosis Symptoms
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a somewhat interesting philosophical question here. What does it mean for this result to be the 'placebo effect'? That is, supposing it is in some sense caused by the psyche, and fasting reliably produces that effect...is there a sense in which fasting is not its cause? Clearly for sugar pill vs drug we can measure the component which is 'placebo'. But here, since it is immeasurable...is it possible to call…
>fasting reliably produces that effect First, one study doesn't tell us that fasting "reliably" produces this effect. Secondly, if it was a placebo effect then fasting would not reliably produce it. You would likely be able to produce no placebo effect by telling patients that there will very likely be no effect whatsoever on their symptoms. >But here, since it is immeasurable...is it possible to call it a placebo ef…
Ya, you're totally right that one study does not prove reliability.
I guess my point is more theoretical. Let's say it was reliable, and let's say that other non-fasting diets didn't produce the effect. Further, let's say that telling them it had no effect didn't prevent it either.
Now, given all that, it's still possible that there is, in some sense, a psychological component (i.e. how you 'feel' when fasting) that causes you to get better in some way. I have always thought this about Airborne and such, for instance. They are total bullshit products that absolutely, categorically do not work. But I drink them when i'm sick anyway, because the effervescence and the flavor feel to me like something that works, so I feel like their placebo effect is better than other things.
I suppose what i'm getting at is that there are some activities/experiences that can engineer better placebo effects than others due to the subjective experience they produce. And I wonder then in what sense is that separable from the thing itself.