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The idea of a university as a free space rather than a safe space is vanishing

blogs.spectator.co.uk

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: The idea of a university as a free space rather than a safe space is vanishing

#21
post #6

I'm not British, so it's hard to judge, but I'm not entirely certain the interpretation he gives of the events cited are completely accurate. This is a man who supported the Iraq invasion and accused protesters of harming the civil rights of the citizens of Iraq.

[deleted]

Re: The idea of a university as a free space rather than a safe space is vanishing

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inclined to agree that "running things like a business" is part of the reason why no one wants to make a stand. But I have to disagree with this: > Or to repurpose your phrase, "When business and profits are your religion, anyone with moral conviction is your enemy and must be silenced." It's not the businessmen who are trying to shut down free speech and debate on college campuses. > See, that's the sort of sexi…

> "One small step for a man or a womyn, one giant leap for man- and womyn-kind". I think I could get that one through even toughest SJW language police. What do you think? I think "the SJW language police" probably know that Neil Armstrong is not a "womyn".

You caught me. I was indulging in a little hyperbole.

Re: The idea of a university as a free space rather than a safe space is vanishing

#23

When moral relativism is your religion, anyone with moral conviction is your enemy and must be silenced. What's most pitiful is the cowardice displayed by all who should know better. University trustees and professors, business leaders, entertainers, and every last one of us who has ever surrendered to this tyranny in our schools, our jobs, or our communities. Instead of fighting back, we capitulate and cower in fear…

Okay, I'm lost: why the downvotes? This sounds like reasonable comment, even useful (the first sentence is a good summary of the article's subject). I see no attack to any particular group. What in this comment could possibly rub HN the wrong way?

I think it's just that there's a lot of dramatic and hyperbolic words and phrases in there, here's a list from a quick pass:

> religion, anyone, conviction, enemy, must, silenced

> most, pitiful, cowardice, all, should, every last one of us, ever, surrendered, tyranny, fighting, capitulate, cower, fear

> my own country, America; disgusts, good men, put down their lives, secure, blessings, liberty, lack, confidence, courage, even, a word, defense

A few of these would be fine.

Re: The idea of a university as a free space rather than a safe space is vanishing

#24
post #2

It is indeed a sad day when people, that is, students, are censored by their own. It's astounding that this would happen being that through disagreement and argument is how we find our better ways. My sentiment is that here is the one place where we should feel free to share our ideas no matter how immature or adolescent they are. This should be the place where we get to open up and explore. But, as they say, the lef…

Anyone who uses terms like "the left" is pretty much announcing where they are coming from, and that their argument is almost certainly going to be simplistic and flawed.

Take this excerpt:

       Surely the left believes in secularism and despises
       the superstitions that have held humanity back? Not 
       so, and not for a long time.
If "the left" believes in secularism and atheism, and the people he's talking about oppose secularism and atheism, why does does he conclude this means "the left" no longer believes in secularism, rather than the people he's talking about are not actually "the left"?

He claims "Feminists, gay-rights campaigners, anti-fascists and anti-Islamists" are being sanctioned or persecuted. So the left is against feminists, gay-rights and anti-fascism? What do those groups represent then, "the right"?

If there's one claim socialism and communism can make, it's that it's diametrically opposed to Islamism, as evidenced in numerous post-war socialist, secular Arab countries, Afghanistan in the 70s and 80s, and in the fact that leftists have been persecuted and murdered in every Islamist state from Saudi to Iran.

    In any case, the ‘left’ as I suppose I have to call it
Why does he have to call it "the left" if even he states they hold "reactionary views"? Because he's pandering to a right-wing audience on a right-wing website.

Re: The idea of a university as a free space rather than a safe space is vanishing

#25
post #20

The author seems to reminisce about a time when universities were pure outlets of free thought. At that time women were vastly outnumbered by men in universities. The time when universities were pure and free for everyone exists only in the authors imagination.

You didn't back up anything you were saying. It looks to me like women crossed the majority in 1960.

http://blogs.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/gender-...

Re: The idea of a university as a free space rather than a safe space is vanishing

#26

The real tragedy is that university used to be a place where you could be convinced that some of the ideas you had going in might be wrong . Now the only thing that's being taught is that certain people just aren't allowed to speak at all. People who used to have their ways of thinking changed at university are now leaving silent, angry, and still wrong .

Who knew? American colleges now actively condition kids to think limiting free speech is ok if it's against racism etc.

Re: The idea of a university as a free space rather than a safe space is vanishing

#27
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I'm lost: why the downvotes? This sounds like reasonable comment, even useful (the first sentence is a good summary of the article's subject). I see no attack to any particular group. What in this comment could possibly rub HN the wrong way?

I think it's just that there's a lot of dramatic and hyperbolic words and phrases in there, here's a list from a quick pass: > religion, anyone, conviction, enemy, must, silenced > most, pitiful, cowardice, all, should, every last one of us, ever, surrendered, tyranny, fighting, capitulate, cower, fear > my own country, America; disgusts, good men, put down their lives, secure, blessings, liberty, lack, confidence, c…

Dramatic is the right tone here. We are seeing the collapse of intellectual freedom and openness in the places where it was supposed to be valued most. This does not bode well for our civilization. My generation, the millennials, holds free speech in much lower regard than previous generations. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millen... . Everyone who values freedom should be very alarmed.

Re: The idea of a university as a free space rather than a safe space is vanishing

#28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's just that there's a lot of dramatic and hyperbolic words and phrases in there, here's a list from a quick pass: > religion, anyone, conviction, enemy, must, silenced > most, pitiful, cowardice, all, should, every last one of us, ever, surrendered, tyranny, fighting, capitulate, cower, fear > my own country, America; disgusts, good men, put down their lives, secure, blessings, liberty, lack, confidence, c…

Dramatic is the right tone here. We are seeing the collapse of intellectual freedom and openness in the places where it was supposed to be valued most. This does not bode well for our civilization. My generation, the millennials, holds free speech in much lower regard than previous generations. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millen... . Everyone who values freedom should be very alarmed.

Unfortunately I think this makes universities less hypocritical because it's more in line with the way academia works on the inside.

Re: The idea of a university as a free space rather than a safe space is vanishing

#29

When moral relativism is your religion, anyone with moral conviction is your enemy and must be silenced. What's most pitiful is the cowardice displayed by all who should know better. University trustees and professors, business leaders, entertainers, and every last one of us who has ever surrendered to this tyranny in our schools, our jobs, or our communities. Instead of fighting back, we capitulate and cower in fear…

Okay, I'm lost: why the downvotes? This sounds like reasonable comment, even useful (the first sentence is a good summary of the article's subject). I see no attack to any particular group. What in this comment could possibly rub HN the wrong way?

I suspect the downvotes are happening for the same reason that so many potential voices on campuses are being rejected outright -- because they don't toe the line. ;-)

Re: The idea of a university as a free space rather than a safe space is vanishing

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "One small step for a man or a womyn, one giant leap for man- and womyn-kind". I think I could get that one through even toughest SJW language police. What do you think? I think "the SJW language police" probably know that Neil Armstrong is not a "womyn".

You caught me. I was indulging in a little hyperbole.

I'm not sure Armstrong has spoken publicly about its gender identity. Can we be so sure? ;-)
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