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Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

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Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#21

Post by jimbokun »

savanaly wrote: post #4

It seems like the optimal learning environment is one where you are a) being taught at the speed and level that is at least in the ballpark of your potential. The reason this is needed is obvious: if you are being taught way beyond your capability you won't learn anything, and it's a disservice to be taught way below your capability as well. b) in the top 50% of your local group of students, for self esteem reasons a…

"b) in the top 50% of your local group of students, for self esteem reasons and also because you'll start to feel like studying and working hard pays off if you seem to be successful in school relative to your peers."

So you want to grow up in Lake Wobegone.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/g/garrisonke137097....

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#22

Post by powertower »

astazangasta wrote: post #18
powertower wrote: post #14

There is something very narcissistic about all that. Basically, among gifted students, their child's position was in the middle of the bell-curve. That is a natural thing when there are smarter kids around, that are a better scoring group then your previous one. The parents then go on to blame society and the school for not dedicating significantly more resources towards their child, at the expense of the other stude…

>The schools are not their to raise the child, that is the parents' job. If primary education isn't child rearing, nothing is. Schools are absolutely there to raise the child.

> If primary education isn't child rearing, nothing is. Schools are absolutely there to raise the child.

By that logic, what exactly is the parents job then?

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#23

Post by JackFr »

cuckcuckspruce wrote: post #2

> I will never forget the day I mentioned to another mother my concern about lack of empathy and kindness among the students, and she told me: “That’s not the school’s job.” Is there nothing left that parents are meant to teach? Or is it all now the school's job? If so, why don't we go full Spartan and take the kids away from the parents right after they're born and have schools teach everything.

> I mentioned to another mother my concern about lack of empathy and kindness among the students

As I read this, it does not imply she thinks it's necessarily the schools job, but rather reflects her concern that she's leaving her child for 7 hours a day to fend for himself in environment of hyper-competitive sociopaths.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#24

Post by Kluny »

baldfat wrote: post #5

I was a "gifted" kid AKA they took my IQ score and put me in the program. (Horrible way to figure that out). I got to go to special things on Saturdays and take harder math classes in school. I totally sucked at spelling and still do and this is a known issue with people with a "mathematical brain" AKA can't spell to save my life but read at a high school level in 3rd grade and was doing calculus in 9th grade. My son…

I hope your son beat cancer since then.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#25

Post by trhway »

Someone1234 wrote: post #11

You tell a kid they're smart: You've immediately set them up for long term failure. "Smart" is a quantifiable hard limit. The problem with smart people is that as soon as they run up against a challenge/concept/issue they cannot immediately overcome, they get frustrated, because they "should be smarter than this!" Which often results in avoidable frustration/anxiety/depression. You see this a lot. "Gifted" "smart" ki…

>You tell a kid they're smart: You've immediately set them up for long term failure.

this is why you put the kid into a school with other "smart" kids so the kid gets the chance to experience that s/he isn't the smartest one, that there are much more smart kids out there.

Speaking from personal experience - without much special effort 8th grade city's first place in physics, mathematics and chemistry, regional second in physics, yet once i got into the high school for advanced studies of math and physics (where students were collected from multiple regions of the USSR (45-y anybody ?:)) i was just an average, and any time getting above it took significant effort and on many occasions i was just trounced by other students, the really smart ones.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#26

Post by jimktrains2 »

gmarx wrote: post #19
Someone1234 wrote: post #11

You tell a kid they're smart: You've immediately set them up for long term failure. "Smart" is a quantifiable hard limit. The problem with smart people is that as soon as they run up against a challenge/concept/issue they cannot immediately overcome, they get frustrated, because they "should be smarter than this!" Which often results in avoidable frustration/anxiety/depression. You see this a lot. "Gifted" "smart" ki…

When I was kid people told me I was smart. I don't think I experienced any of this.

When I was a kid people told me I was smart. I'm almost 30 and _still_ struggle with _exactly_ what GP posted.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#27

Post by JackFr »

Someone1234 wrote: post #11

You tell a kid they're smart: You've immediately set them up for long term failure. "Smart" is a quantifiable hard limit. The problem with smart people is that as soon as they run up against a challenge/concept/issue they cannot immediately overcome, they get frustrated, because they "should be smarter than this!" Which often results in avoidable frustration/anxiety/depression. You see this a lot. "Gifted" "smart" ki…

> You tell a kid they're smart: You've immediately set them up for long term failure.

Especially b/c the really smart ones know without being told.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#28

Post by rsync »

astazangasta wrote: post #18
powertower wrote: post #14

There is something very narcissistic about all that. Basically, among gifted students, their child's position was in the middle of the bell-curve. That is a natural thing when there are smarter kids around, that are a better scoring group then your previous one. The parents then go on to blame society and the school for not dedicating significantly more resources towards their child, at the expense of the other stude…

>The schools are not their to raise the child, that is the parents' job. If primary education isn't child rearing, nothing is. Schools are absolutely there to raise the child.

">The schools are not their to raise the child, that is the parents' job. If primary education isn't child rearing, nothing is. Schools are absolutely there to raise the child."

The schools are not their to raise the child, that is the parents' job.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#29

Post by detaro »

cuckcuckspruce wrote: post #2

> I will never forget the day I mentioned to another mother my concern about lack of empathy and kindness among the students, and she told me: “That’s not the school’s job.” Is there nothing left that parents are meant to teach? Or is it all now the school's job? If so, why don't we go full Spartan and take the kids away from the parents right after they're born and have schools teach everything.

False dichotomy in my book. Schools/Teachers totally have an influence on how students act around each other. Parents do too. Parents wanting the school to care about it's influence doesn't mean they don't want to do anything about it.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#30

Post by jonesb6 »

powertower wrote: post #22
astazangasta wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The schools are not their to raise the child, that is the parents' job. If primary education isn't child rearing, nothing is. Schools are absolutely there to raise the child.

> If primary education isn't child rearing, nothing is. Schools are absolutely there to raise the child. By that logic, what exactly is the parents job then?

Generally whatever they end up doing between 9 and 5. Traditionally this would entail one parent working and the other staying at home, of which the one staying at home might spend an hour in the morning getting the child ready and an hour picking them up / shuttling them to extracurriculars or whatever. In the mean time it is assumed that parent would do house work or other family oriented activities like shopping, cooking, finances, etc.

Hasn't this been the status quo in all societies with "modern" education? Genuinely curious.

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