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Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

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11–20 of 104 posts

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#11
You tell a kid they're smart: You've immediately set them up for long term failure.

"Smart" is a quantifiable hard limit. The problem with smart people is that as soon as they run up against a challenge/concept/issue they cannot immediately overcome, they get frustrated, because they "should be smarter than this!" Which often results in avoidable frustration/anxiety/depression.

You see this a lot. "Gifted" "smart" kids who coast through school for years, until one day they finally run up against something they cannot do and run away from it screaming. Simply because they're not "smart enough."

Where is the school program that let's the bullshit pseudo concept of "smarts" fall by the wayside and instead replaces it with an atmosphere where failure IS acceptable, and that you just have to work through the hard parts?

I have a kid. My wife's side is second generation "gifted." These people are absolutely obsessed with how smart they are/sound/come across, and get incredibly upset/frustrated/annoyed when they feel "dumb" (i.e. things are hard, they don't get it right away, or they make a mistake).

Unfortunately when I raise the issue of "hey, focusing on an intangible level of intelligence could be damaging [here look at this child research]" I just get eye rolls, because they're so deeply into the concept of how innately intelligent they are, they cannot see a less damaging way of living one's life.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#12
Good for the OP. I, like many here, am an old child prodigy. Starting fatherhood 2.5 years ago, I wanted "prodigy" status for my kids too. Lots of ABC's and 123's in the last two years. Yet I'm already sensing that this is the wrong direction.

Kids need fun and excitement to grow. They'll all eventually learn their ABC's and far beyond. How far beyond, though, is unrelated to how early they learn their ABC's. Rather how confident and interested they are in what they're doing. That, and genetics, which no amount of training will change. This seems obvious when you let yourself step outside the education rat race for a second.

And then going back to the "far beyond" ... How far beyond do we need to get? I personally got to graduate level math and did well enough. Yet I'm still mostly (and happily) writing web software that I could have done with a high-school education or less. And working for (excellent) managers that were not even close to being child prodigies.

We adults are the ones with the experience to know what is important, so why do we warp this knowledge when we apply it to our kids?

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#13

You tell a kid they're smart: You've immediately set them up for long term failure. "Smart" is a quantifiable hard limit. The problem with smart people is that as soon as they run up against a challenge/concept/issue they cannot immediately overcome, they get frustrated, because they "should be smarter than this!" Which often results in avoidable frustration/anxiety/depression. You see this a lot. "Gifted" "smart" ki…

There are some English schools that have "failure" weeks. Here's one example from 2012.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16879336

Other thing schools are doing is stopping children putting their hand up to answer a question. They just ask a child at random to try to answer. (In theory) wrong answers are fine, they're looking for the child to try to explain the answer they have.

Praise effort, not achievement is useful and is something that parents should be doing.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#14
There is something very narcissistic about all that.

Basically, among gifted students, their child's position was in the middle of the bell-curve. That is a natural thing when there are smarter kids around, that are a better scoring group then your previous one.

The parents then go on to blame society and the school for not dedicating significantly more resources towards their child, at the expense of the other students.

The schools are not their to raise the child, that is the parents' job.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#16
post #4

It seems like the optimal learning environment is one where you are a) being taught at the speed and level that is at least in the ballpark of your potential. The reason this is needed is obvious: if you are being taught way beyond your capability you won't learn anything, and it's a disservice to be taught way below your capability as well. b) in the top 50% of your local group of students, for self esteem reasons a…

> being taught at the speed and level that is at least in the ballpark of your potential.

There is usually 30 students to a class, and 1 teacher. So it would have to be in the ballpark of the group's potential.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#17
post #4

It seems like the optimal learning environment is one where you are a) being taught at the speed and level that is at least in the ballpark of your potential. The reason this is needed is obvious: if you are being taught way beyond your capability you won't learn anything, and it's a disservice to be taught way below your capability as well. b) in the top 50% of your local group of students, for self esteem reasons a…

> in the top 50% of your local group of students

This is why I feel strongly that one of the major problems in education has to do with stratifying students. Even the students who are great at _everything_ among their peers are mediocre in the right crowd. "Gifted" folks are among most susceptible to "big fish in a small pond" effects that tie them down later on. It would be better to learn early that the world is more nuanced than your rank order in a classroom.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#18

There is something very narcissistic about all that. Basically, among gifted students, their child's position was in the middle of the bell-curve. That is a natural thing when there are smarter kids around, that are a better scoring group then your previous one. The parents then go on to blame society and the school for not dedicating significantly more resources towards their child, at the expense of the other stude…

>The schools are not their to raise the child, that is the parents' job.

If primary education isn't child rearing, nothing is. Schools are absolutely there to raise the child.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#19

You tell a kid they're smart: You've immediately set them up for long term failure. "Smart" is a quantifiable hard limit. The problem with smart people is that as soon as they run up against a challenge/concept/issue they cannot immediately overcome, they get frustrated, because they "should be smarter than this!" Which often results in avoidable frustration/anxiety/depression. You see this a lot. "Gifted" "smart" ki…

When I was kid people told me I was smart. I don't think I experienced any of this.

Re: Why I pulled my son out of a school for 'gifted' kids

#20
A lot of the failure is actually on the parents here.

It's not that hard to get your child into schools for gifted children without your child being especially gifted. Not saying it's easy but it's not really about how gifted they are.

Here in NY a lot of parents push their kids and focus primarily on the skills thats needed to get into these schools without the kids having a natural urge to want to get into it. Lots of tutoring to get them to they point where they can do it.

And so a lot of children have "read the book" but don't understand it so to speak. And thats where the problem start.

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