Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

pewsocialtrends.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 266 posts

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#191

Post by hga »

longone wrote: post #36
dmix wrote: post #2

Also ALL violent crime is down 50% since 1993. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooa98FHuaU0 Fear is a powerful weapon. The media and politicians know this and selectively choose which crime stats to promote. Emotional outrage > rational analysis when it comes to selling pageviews and building political support. That is nothing new. Fortunately the internet is helping to temper that imbalance.

I don't know if politicians are in on this, bit of a conspiracy that I don't want to get into. However, crime and murder sell. My mother loves to watch the 10 O'Clock news every night but luckily she reads the paper and surfs the web, otherwise I think she might lose her mind. Those nightly news programs are awful. If I only watched local or even cable news and used them as my source for staying in touch with the wor…

The saying is "if it bleeds, it leads."

Because of course people are interested in this. And it doesn't have to be a stereotypical, cowelled people meeting in caves conspiracy. Instead it's an "auto-conspiracy", simply a large group of like minded people doing things in the same direction. Not even a "conspiracy" in the usual "it's secret" sense, many if not most gun grabbers are open about what they're doing enough of the time and often about their intended end goals.

That's one of the things that's driving the "counter-revolution", the gun grabbers have let their masks slip so much, have expressed so much hatred towards gun owners, that they and many many people who were just thinking about buying a gun have been buying everything useful in sight.

E.g. Illinois FOID card applications have quadrupled; that's a absolutely solid metric of people who haven't legally owned a gun up to now.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#192

Post by numo16 »

learc83 wrote: post #3

If you live outside of a high crime area, and you aren't involved in criminal activity the chances, of being shot are drastically reduced below the average.

Agreed. I live in Flint, MI (#1 in violent crime, 2 years running) and have yet to personally see any violent crime first hand, and I live just north of the worst part of the city.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#193

Post by raccer »

Terretta wrote: post #10
dmix wrote: post #2

Also ALL violent crime is down 50% since 1993. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooa98FHuaU0 Fear is a powerful weapon. The media and politicians know this and selectively choose which crime stats to promote. Emotional outrage > rational analysis when it comes to selling pageviews and building political support. That is nothing new. Fortunately the internet is helping to temper that imbalance.

> selectively choose which crime stats to promote For example, FBI homicide stats last year show 350 killed by rifles of any kind, assault or otherwise, while 750 killed by hammers. I keep waiting for the groundswell of public support for hammer control.

Ban All the Hammers! PS You're awesome ;)

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#194

Post by ctdonath »

DigitalTurk wrote: post #172
ctdonath wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan has a very high suicide rate despite near non-existence of guns.

The issue at stake here is the counterfactual ‘If guns were (not) available, would the suicide rate be different’. How does your (oddly specific) statistic address this question?

The suicidal find a way. Where guns are not available, in at least one major comparable example, the suicide rate is different by being higher (by a lot). Sure, guns make it easy...but there are many other easy ways.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#195

Post by pionar »

rgraham wrote: post #166
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it isn't an AK-47 in the same way that an AR-15 isn't an M16. The point is, nobody is making or importing full auto AK-47s and selling them to gang members. A semiautomatic-only AK-47 is just the functional equivalent of a hunting rifle.

The M16 has been semi-auto (single fire and three round bursts) since the Vietnam war with the rare exception of special forces weapons[1]. Fully automatic mainline rifles are inaccurate, wasteful, expensive, and less effective. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle#M16A2

Burst fire IS semi-auto, despite the other commenter. Automatic firing means that when you hold down the trigger it continues to fire until either the trigger is released or the ammunition supply is exhausted.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#196

Post by hga »

balloot wrote: post #14

In a totally and completely unrelated fact, the rate of gun ownership is also down 30% since the 1980's. It's almost as if the two may have a relationship, but that certainly cannot be the case because the NRA has spent a jillion dollars telling me otherwise!

All of those statistics that I've seen, claiming that rates of ownership are down, are based on surveys.

What do you think are common reactions from gun owners when a nosy stranger calls them on the phone and asks if they own a gun?

Might it have correlations with the Zeitgeist created by the gun grabbers, especially when they dance on the blood of victims like with Newtown?

I haven't run the numbers myself, but someone's claimed that if you mash these all together, the post-Newtown "admits to owning a firearm" + the number known to be outstanding (we have solid figures on legal production and imports) and the population, the average gun owner owns about $100K worth of firearms.

See also solid evidence like Illinois FOID application rates as I mentioned elsewhere in this topic. By definition those are from people who haven't previously legally owned guns, and they've quadrupled since Newtown.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#197

Post by jeffdavis »

ebbv wrote: post #185
Pewpewarrows wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an awfully wrong approach. As with things like Alcohol, if you teach your children how to operate and act responsibly, they get into less trouble with it as an adult. If you stilt their growth and don't allow them to touch a gun until they're 18, they won't have developed enough to handle it themselves without supervision.

Wait are you advocating we lower the drinking age to produce more responsible drinkers? I think you'll find most irresponsible drinkers started before 21 anyway.

"I think you'll find most irresponsible drinkers started before 21 anyway."

Drinking illegally at 18 years old might lead to different outcomes than drinking legally at the same age.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#198

Post by pionar »

bluedino wrote: post #167
evan_ wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll get a lot of hits on that because the media calls every long gun an AK47. No criminal in his right mind would use one, it's expensive and objectively terrible.

You think full-auto weapons aren't used on the streets of America?

Ah, but they're illegal, so you're admitting that banning guns doesn't work.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#199

Post by Zimahl »

jsonne wrote: post #159
learc83 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conclusions motherjones got from that study were absolutely ridiculous. The big graph they display is meaningless. Here is a quote from the article. "...gun suicides, where the majority of victims don't have a documented serious mental illness." In many states background checks don't require a waiting period. So a background check wouldn't have stopped them from buying a gun. Their entire premise is based on suic…

Motherjones also fails to recognize that MANY states already have mandatory "cooling off periods" where if you buy a gun on say Monday you can't pick it up until later in the week. http://www.ehow.com/list_6745387_illinois-gun-license-requir... "As with many states, Illinois has a mandatory 72-hour wait period between the time a person purchases a handgun and the time he can take the gun home from a licensed dealer."

In most cases, these waiting periods are for handguns and not rifles or shotguns. The law is not to prevent suicides but to prevent 'crimes of passion'. There would be very little difficulty in someone killing themselves with a rifle or shotgun, although it isn't as easy as putting a handgun to one's temple.

BTW, I'm not arguing with you just clarifying.

Re: Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

#200

Post by navait »

greedo wrote: post #73
longone wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if politicians are in on this, bit of a conspiracy that I don't want to get into. However, crime and murder sell. My mother loves to watch the 10 O'Clock news every night but luckily she reads the paper and surfs the web, otherwise I think she might lose her mind. Those nightly news programs are awful. If I only watched local or even cable news and used them as my source for staying in touch with the wor…

Many would be better off not watching any news or reading any newspapers. Even relying on the Internet makes things tough since there's a firehose of data, and this leads to confirmation bias having a huge affect.

Fortunately, we have HM to reassure ourselves we are so much smarter than everyone else.
Post reply on HN