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Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#191

Post by jtotheh »

I got into Linux because it gave me things I couldn't get with Windows/Mac (in 1994). There are less things that is true for now, by far. I am drawn to the ideals of Free Software (maybe BSD style, maybe GNU style) like a moth to the flame. Nonetheless, I have a smartphone, which since 2016 has been an iPhone.

Now there are things I can't get with Linux that I value with macOS. The integration with the phone is just not possible if am running Linux. The power management and convenient things like Apple Music, too.

I was disgusted to see Tim Cook abase himself before Trump and spent a while researching alternative phones. I did not find anything that looked like a serious option. There are things I need that are only available for iPhone or Android, it's become table stakes for life nowadays. My E-car charger required an app to function, for instance.

I admire people who "vote with their wallet" and/or suffer inconvenience for their ideals. But I am not going to install Linux (or OpenBSD) on my M1 Macbook pro. It's too essential for me the way it is.

For the record, I pour a lot of time into my 2014 macbook running arch and a thinkpad running OpenBSD, and keep an arch server/desktop running pretty much 24/7. I spend tons of time trying to find/devise things on Linux to match things I use that are closed-source/apple only.

Hats off to people who can program at the level required to make this happen. It's beyond me. And also to those trying to make Pine Phone etc a realistic option. I think that's the most important free software battleground now.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#192

Post by applfanboysbgon »

rowanG077 wrote: post #179
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This diminishes what "random online comments" are . They aren't just text on a screen. They represent words that another human being has said about you. Often, words that will convince other human beings, who may take different actions or view you differently because of what they've been told, which will in turn spread virally and alter how thousands and thousands of humans see you and act towards you. Humans are a s…

I agree it would be much better if online culture improved, and I don’t think anyone would argue against that. The difficulty is that change at that scale tends to be slow and unpredictable, on the order of decades, so you can't rely on it in the short term. Because of that I think there’s value in focusing on what individuals can control, like setting boundaries, disengaging when things get overwhelming, or stepping…

> The belief that this will happen is also a malicious fairy tale to tell to people.

Cultural change is possible. It is not something that will happen, no. But it is something that can happen, if enough people choose to make it happen. Making it happen starts by pointing this out and not blaming the people on the wrong end of this behaviour.

This kind of thinking reminds me of my truly most loathed thought-terminating cliche of all time, "life's not fair", as a justification for supporting some horribly unfair status quo. True, life isn't fair, but humanity has collectively spent an unbelievable amount of effort doing all kinds of things to make it slightly more fair, one step at a time. We can make it more fair. That's what we do as humans. We bend the world to our collective will.

---

seems the comment I was responding to was completely rewritten while I was writing this. oh well.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#193

Post by benoau »

jwr wrote: post #4

When I think about it, I don't understand why Apple wouldn't want to help this effort and just provide all the documentation. All the classic reasons ("competitive advantage", "secrets", etc) do not hold water in this day and age.

I think the biggest value Apple gets from Asahi is they can point EU regulators at it as proof the Mac isn't a closed platform that should be a designated DMA gatekeeper. They don't need Asahi to be complete, they just need it to exist.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#194

Post by jeremyjh »

eightysixfour wrote: post #171
rglullis wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are willing to give the advantage to MacOS due to the integration with the hardware, then you should only judge Linux when provided on hardware from Linux-centric vendors like system76, Tuxedo, Starlite and Framework.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I disagree with it. MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does. If System76 said PopOS only works on their hardware, it would be fair to only evaluate it on their hardware. When SteamOS only claimed to work on Steam Decks, the only good evaluation way to evaluate it was on Steam Decks.

> MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does.

Who exactly is "Linux", and what specifically is the claim? It looks to me like you don't want to lose the argument on these grounds, but maybe you could still have a nice laptop with Linux on it that just works.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#195

Post by srcreigh »

jorvi wrote: post #96
freedomben wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should give Framework a try. It's been a flawless experience with Fedora. And with the upcoming Framework 13 Pro, battery life and trackpad are expected to be on par (or in the case of battery, even better than macos)

No, battery life isn't on par. The only way to get the battery life Framework advertised is on Windows' 'Ultra Efficiency' mode which cuts CPU performance by 25-50%, lowers brightness by 30% and deprioritizes everything in the background to such an extreme that responsiveness of those is measured in seconds. It is not comparable at all to M-series or Snapdragon laptops happily chugging along at full capability and ge…

I’m pretty sure macOS safari doesn’t execute JavaScript on background windows/tabs.

When I play Bitburner, if I want to run it in the background, I have to run the game on Firefox or chrome. It’s a shame because safari actually gives best performance by quite a large margin.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#196

Post by cromka »

internet2000 wrote: post #82
mrj wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to support it, just document the system or release their own kernel code. They don't even have to mention Linux.

That’s called support. We count that as support.

Jesus, no, that's not called support.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#197

Post by carlosjobim »

u_fucking_dork wrote: post #9
jwr wrote: post #4

When I think about it, I don't understand why Apple wouldn't want to help this effort and just provide all the documentation. All the classic reasons ("competitive advantage", "secrets", etc) do not hold water in this day and age.

The cynical take is that they make a shit ton of money from services and Linux running on a MacBook won’t help them do that.

What's cynical about it? Surely you understand what the purpose of a for-profit company is.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#198

Post by cromka »

graemep wrote: post #81
saadn92 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real answer is probably simpler than anyone here is making it. Apple hardware margins are healthy enough that selling macbooks to linux users is pure profit, so no services lock-in needed. However, the moment they officially acknowledge Linux support, then it becomes a support surface. Every kernel panic becomes a genius bar visit. Every driver bug becomes a tweet at @AppleSupport. It's the value of plausible den…

> Apple hardware margins are healthy enough that selling macbooks to linux users is pure profit, so no services lock-in needed. What do you mean by needed? A lock-in is more profitable so is needed to maximise profits.

> What do you mean by needed? A lock-in is more profitable so is needed to maximise profits.

You can't lock-in Linux users because vast majority of them won't switch to macOS and ecosystem at large. This is simply a currently untapped market they could easily almost entirely own if they wanted to. With growing Linux popularity, extra 3-4% of the laptop market share is nothing they can ignore in front of shareholders.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#199

Post by cromka »

aurareturn wrote: post #41
jwr wrote: post #4

When I think about it, I don't understand why Apple wouldn't want to help this effort and just provide all the documentation. All the classic reasons ("competitive advantage", "secrets", etc) do not hold water in this day and age.

Little to no monetary benefit, hardware changes now need to be documented for Linux, loudest and most critical users but smallest volume.

> Little to no monetary benefit

A 1-3% of the market out of the 5% that Linux already is, is little to no monetary benefit?

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#200

Post by rowanG077 »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #192
rowanG077 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it would be much better if online culture improved, and I don’t think anyone would argue against that. The difficulty is that change at that scale tends to be slow and unpredictable, on the order of decades, so you can't rely on it in the short term. Because of that I think there’s value in focusing on what individuals can control, like setting boundaries, disengaging when things get overwhelming, or stepping…

> The belief that this will happen is also a malicious fairy tale to tell to people. Cultural change is possible. It is not something that will happen, no. But it is something that can happen, if enough people choose to make it happen. Making it happen starts by pointing this out and not blaming the people on the wrong end of this behaviour. This kind of thinking reminds me of my truly most loathed thought-terminatin…

You are derailing this discussion by keep moving it to: "This is what the world should be like", and no one is disagreeing with that here. This is not what anything I said is about.
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