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F-15E jet shot down over Iran

theguardian.com

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Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#191

Post by sokitsip »

dmix wrote: post #178
verdverm wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First to go down in Iran, but a surprising amount of attritions thus far - 3x F-15 friendly fire - 2x KC-130 refuel mid air collision (1 loss, 1 damaged) - 1x F-35 damaged - 1x AEWACs base strike - 3x KC-130 base strike (same) - 1x F-15 (this one) 2-3 a week is not great for the greatest military, more than half attributable to Iran. With 300+ US casualties, that's ~10/day, a fatality every ~2 days. No boots on the g…

You must not have read about all the hype Iran had before the war and before 2024 especially. The US airforce/navy has performed extremely well. In Desert Storm they lost far, far more aircraft and that only lasted 1.5 months (Iran is 1 month in). Even the ballistic missile strikes against Israel haven't been exceptionally notable, considering Iran is going full-bore and has thousands of ballistic/cruise missiles and…

And that’s exactly why sharing a video might lead to prison sentence somewhere?

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#192

Post by butlike »

ks2048 wrote: post #163
tokai wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prisoner of war, not hostage. edit: I'm baffled by the amount of downvotes pointing out the objectively correct terminology can get. Its not a matter of opinion, military personnel captured by the enemy are pow no matter their treatment. A hostage, by definition, has been abducted.

Not a Prisoner of War - a Prisoner of a limited military excursion.

It's more of a 'romp' than an 'excursion,' if you will.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#194

Post by verdverm »

dmix wrote: post #178
verdverm wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First to go down in Iran, but a surprising amount of attritions thus far - 3x F-15 friendly fire - 2x KC-130 refuel mid air collision (1 loss, 1 damaged) - 1x F-35 damaged - 1x AEWACs base strike - 3x KC-130 base strike (same) - 1x F-15 (this one) 2-3 a week is not great for the greatest military, more than half attributable to Iran. With 300+ US casualties, that's ~10/day, a fatality every ~2 days. No boots on the g…

You must not have read about all the hype Iran had before the war and before 2024 especially. The US airforce/navy has performed extremely well. In Desert Storm they lost far, far more aircraft and that only lasted 1.5 months (Iran is 1 month in). Even the ballistic missile strikes against Israel haven't been exceptionally notable, considering Iran is going full-bore and has thousands of ballistic/cruise missiles and…

I wouldn't draw comparisons to Desert Storm, 36 years ago and a differently composed US military, along with all the ISR advancements since then.

> They should be able to do much more to regional military bases.

Could, they are not going all out, but they do keep striking gulf states on the regular

> people mocking the presidents inconsistent communication.

Asking questions, we the people deserve some clarity instead of half a dozen changing reasons and being told we already won, but still need to win, and that we'll be done in a few weeks a few times now. We the people have to pay for this, we deserve answers, especially what's the plan for when the shooting stops?

Israel, or at least Bibi, seems to be the only one who is very clear about the goals and intentions.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#195

Post by derektank »

surgical_fire wrote: post #132
peyton wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I am not from the US, so I don't really care about how it does its things. I definitely don't expect political purges on bureaucracy in my country of residence after elections, and I would consider it an extremely bad sign. Typically the new party replaces the top levels; this is expected. Director of something, secretary of this and that, minister of something else, etc. The actual bureacrats doing day to day work t…

This was also true of the US. It’s expected to replace the Secretary of Defense and a variety of subordinate secretaries and undersecretaries like the Secretary of the Army with political leaders affiliated with the President’s party. Military officers at the highest level, such as the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs or the Chiefs of Staff of the respective branches, are somewhat political, but they are expected to be professionals chosen for merit. And below that level, it has historically been very frowned upon for political leadership to directly involve itself in the selection and promotion of flag officers beyond setting criteria and expectations.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#196

Post by cactusfrog »

pram wrote: post #160
MarkMarine wrote: post #21

Military aviators train for this, being alone behind enemy lines (look up SERE school if you’re curious, one of the craziest training courses outside of special forces) and there is a special force just for aviator recovery behind enemy lines, US AirForce Pararescue. Hopefully they’ll get the aviators back quickly, the last thing our country needs is American hostages making this ridiculous war harder to stop.

TBH I went through SERE school (aircrew) and I questioned its value, since the training is in eastern Washington/northern Idaho area mountainous woodland environment and all the evasion they showed us relied on that kind of cover and "bushcraft" And you know, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Iran are definitely not eastern Washington lol

Eastern Washington has a lot of hot desert

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#197

Post by butlike »

panarky wrote: post #184
victorbjorklund wrote: post #142

If true I can’t imagine it will play well even among Trumps base. When was the last time a US fighter jet was shot down? 1999 during the intervention in the balkans?

You overestimate the base. The war machine is already rewriting this as Iranian hostility. The base is incapable of seeing this as a failure of their cult leader. Instead they'll see it as the very rationale and justification of the war. If they were ambivalent about it before, now they'll scream bloody murder for even more off-the-leash barbarism from the US and Israel.

Why are you helping them galvanize? Let them come up with their own raison d'etre.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#198

Post by ericmay »

carefree-bob wrote: post #152
roadbuster wrote: post #116

During the entire gulf war (Iraq, 1990-91), only two F-15s were shot down via surface-to-air engagement. At the time, Baghdad was known to have the highest density of SAM protection out of any city in the world. An F-15 being shot down in Iran after weeks of strategic bombing of their anti-air defense systems is not a good sign.

In the first Iraq war, the KARI system in Iraq, which was built by Thompson-CSF, had its specifications leaked and the US obtained access to back doors and codes that allowed it to bypass and/or disable much of that system. You need to remember that the US and much of the West had friendly relations with Iraq and provided some infrastructure assistance and military support because Iraq invaded Iran. No such analogous…

By that same logic that fact that we only lost 1 F-15 in, what, almost 3 weeks of bombing is actually a pretty good sign. Especially when you factor in that the Russians (proven) and Chinese (yet to be proven) are assisting Iran and Iran has been buying and building all of this military infrastructure at the expense of living conditions for its people just for this very attack, only to have almost everything obliterated.

And 3 weeks in to the war and the US is flying refueling tankers to refuel Blackhawks in the very area the F-15 was shot down to recover the pilots (1 so far has been received) should be much more informative than it seems to be.

But sure... the KARI system in Iraq.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#199

Post by caribou1914 »

roadbuster wrote: post #116

During the entire gulf war (Iraq, 1990-91), only two F-15s were shot down via surface-to-air engagement. At the time, Baghdad was known to have the highest density of SAM protection out of any city in the world. An F-15 being shot down in Iran after weeks of strategic bombing of their anti-air defense systems is not a good sign.

It seems like the Iraqis were relatively poor operators of their systems. A few days ago I was reading about the Nato bombing of yugoslavia on wikipedia and it had the following entry:

"Yugoslav air defences were much fewer than what Iraq had deployed during the Gulf War – an estimated 16 SA-3 and 25 SA-6 surface-to-air missile systems, plus numerous anti-aircraft artillery (AAA) and man-portable air defence systems (MANPADS) – but unlike the Iraqis they took steps to preserve their assets. Prior to the conflict's start Yugoslav SAMs were preemptively dispersed away from their garrisons and practiced emission control to decrease NATO's ability to locate them."

So their SAMs likely just got stealth bombed / bombed from a distance.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#200

Post by j_maffe »

lazide wrote: post #117
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is a perfect setup for the cynicism olympics where people rush to say you could never trust the govt.

Has there been a time where (after later facts came out) they were wrong?

Nukes in Iraq?
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