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Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

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Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#191

Post by bspammer »

kpil wrote: post #74
nextaccountic wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We know this is only 200,000 neurons. Dogs have 500 million. Humans have billions. But where is the line for sentience, awareness? Have we defined it? If this concern is genuine, I think the first step is to embrace veganism. Because while we don't know the exact offset, it's pretty obvious a dog or a pig reaches it > What are the plans to scale up? I don't know, slavery on an unimaginable scale? That's where AI is…

I think "MMAcevedo" basically nails it: https://qntm.org/mmacevedo

I had a genuine feeling of dread reading that, wow.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#192

Post by bondarchuk »

vjerancrnjak wrote: post #169
fgfarben wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we force-breed, torture and kill animals and their children in the millions every day just for the pleasure of consuming meat, eggs and dairy products We do the same thing to plants. Why do you have no qualms about killing plants to eat the food they accumulated for their young? A grain of wheat and a chicken egg are evolutionarily and nutritionally, maybe even ontologically, indistinguishable from one another.

Your “what about plants” argument is such a worn-out trope that you must have seen it before and read a valid explanation of why it makes no sense. Peter Singer has been writing on the topic for decades, including others. What-about-plants needs to fade away.

That's fair, but "what about animals" is to "we should not torture human brain organoids" as "what about plants" is to "we should not torture animals".

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#193

Post by nurettin »

sd9 wrote: post #102

If this can be taken at face value... it's creepy. I get that they're doing it for the meme. But perhaps something getting close to human intelligence, made out of human cells, shouldn't be forced to play a violent video game without any alternative options? Does 'the meme' justify that? I dunno. Nothing against violent games myself. Just feels like it's starting to get quite questionable, ethically speaking.

Yeah, people get shot/stabbed/"fall off a building by accident" every day and we should be considerate of the feelings of a petri dish.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#194

Post by aw124 »

The usage of human brain cells for unethical experimentation, except when trying to find cures for diseases, is not only a multiplication of suffering (even on the cellular level) but also creates a new baseline for other labs which will follow this path by example. It's a ridiculous misuse of scientific capacity for evil purposes. IMHO.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#195

Post by perching_aix »

IshKebab wrote: post #185
perching_aix wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yeah definitely not I don't know about ants, but after a refresher on the people favorite fruit fly, I'd be hard pressed to be so dismissive - 200K seems to be plenty: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47302051 I inspire you to look up what is known about fruit flies' behavior. The reason it's probably nevertheless not as messed up as people might assume it to be is specifically because it's an organoid, not an…

> so more chances of it gaining whatever level of sentience the actual organism has Yeah but people have no problems experimenting on actual fully working mice already.

Yes *, and in the real world. The question then is if you rate that to be an equivalent existential horror to being a varyingly maldeveloped, malnutritioned, disembodied version of those mice, forced to live out life in a low fidelity version of the Matrix [0], potentially in constant or recurring agony. You get a potential match or approximate match in cognitive ability and operation, but with a lot different set of circumstances.

* They kinda do have a problem with that too, that's why ethics committees exist, and why the term "animal testing" pops up in the news cycle every so often.

[0] https://xcancel.com/alexwg/status/2030217301929132323

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#196

Post by ycombinete »

red_hare wrote: post #120
sd9 wrote: post #102

If this can be taken at face value... it's creepy. I get that they're doing it for the meme. But perhaps something getting close to human intelligence, made out of human cells, shouldn't be forced to play a violent video game without any alternative options? Does 'the meme' justify that? I dunno. Nothing against violent games myself. Just feels like it's starting to get quite questionable, ethically speaking.

The truth is, God really gave 11 commandments. It's just "Thou shalt not grow a brain in a test tube and force it to play a 1993 shooter" didn't make any sense to Moses and therefore didn't make the editors cut.

To be pedantic he actually gave 613 commandments.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#197

Post by w4der »

hellzbellz123 wrote: post #186
kdheiwns wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more likely and immediate use case is having these mini humans autonomously pilot drones in which they'll kill big humans.

I could see the current admin using this as some sort of sick workaround to ethics. Not that they seem to care in the first place

Keep in mind that this is an Australian startup, and they already have some publications out on the ethics of doing this.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#199

Post by lachs2k »

fgfarben wrote: post #152
jmusall wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is horrifying. OTOH, we force-breed, torture and kill animals and their children in the millions every day just for the pleasure of consuming meat, eggs and dairy products. I'm not saying this makes it okay to create a conscious brain in a dish. But maybe thinking a little more about what constitutes consciousness and how we want to protect it from harm can also bring about some desperately needed change in some o…

> we force-breed, torture and kill animals and their children in the millions every day just for the pleasure of consuming meat, eggs and dairy products We do the same thing to plants. Why do you have no qualms about killing plants to eat the food they accumulated for their young? A grain of wheat and a chicken egg are evolutionarily and nutritionally, maybe even ontologically, indistinguishable from one another.

I am not aware of any plants that show signs of consciousness or feelings. This would even by disadvantageous to many plants because they "want" parts of them to be eaten to disperse seeds, pollen, etc.

Even if you accept that plants might be conscious and their suffering has to be reduced, you would still harm way fewer plants by eating them directly instead of eating other animals that consume them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_level

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