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‘Viking’ was a job, not a matter of heredity: ancient DNA study (2020)

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Re: ‘Viking’ was a job, not a matter of heredity: ancient DNA study (2020)

#191

Post by coldtrait »

libraryatnight wrote: post #80
ecshafer wrote: post #8

I am not sure why they used this title for this study as that is not the important part. We already have known Viking was a job description, thats been known for hundreds of years. We also knew that viking settlement was widespread. This study used DNA sequencing to settle the debate on if vikings from certain areas went to certain areas, and if they mixed. It seems to confirm the theory that the norse did NOT mix, a…

I work in the US with white dudes who literally think their heritage is "Viking" and make it a big part of their identity - I appreciate your point but I also understand why someone might pick that title.

Many Americans who are Italian and Irish do the same thing.

Re: ‘Viking’ was a job, not a matter of heredity: ancient DNA study (2020)

#192

Post by _DeadFred_ »

henrikschroder wrote: post #168
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replying to ""Obviously none of them spoke the language, and he'd ask why not? Great question." with the reason is straw manning? Don't worry long ago I had my naivety removed by folks like you and no longer feel any fondness or interest for ireland or irishness, and passed none of it down to my kids. Ireland has never been brought up for a vacation destination where as I convinced my mom to gift me a trip to all of…

"Fine, I won't connect then!1!!" What's wrong with you, you're responding to literally the opposite of what I said? You are free to connect, to seek your roots, figure out weird quirky things from the culture of your ancestors, and nurture as much fondness for Ireland and Irishness as you please. No-one in Ireland (Note, I'm not Irish!!) is gonna object to any of that. The one thing, the ONE FUCKING THING we're askin…

Do you think when my friends say 'you are mexican now' I'm negatively taking something away in that interaction? Somehow we both lose something? Or 'you are indian now'? Do you think I literally think I am now those, and stealing from them?

Thanks for giving me permission to appropriate what my family has kept as core identity. So magnanimous of you to give me your box I'm allowed to fit in (totally non judgemental and friendly with the ' fake, stereotypical, exaggerated, whatever.').

The reason we go to Ireland is to find something, to feel something, and you want us to deny that desire inside us while we are there. Why not save us all the hassle and just... not do any of it? Like I said, I didn't build that desire up in my kids. You should be HAPPY about that. You win. There isn't anything inside of them telling them they are connected to Europe because you euros have decided they aren't, should not be, and are awful people to be made fun of for feeling some sort of connection to you.

The world is small and way kinder than whatever it is you euros want to enforce over there. Irish Americans go to Ireland looking for something, and the Irish don't want to deal with Americans looking for that something. Why would I push it and force myself into the box they define for me? There's amazing surfing and kindness in Costa Rica and they don't complain I'm co-opting their Salsa Lizano. Amazing camping and kindness in Canada. Ironically Germans welcoming and happy to talk about family recipes. The coolness that is Shanghai. Why go to a place where the people there hate the reason you come and talk shit about your deep felt personal motivation as if it's fake? And if you deny that internal feeling and treat Europe just like a cool living museum, believe it or not, Euros also say that's the rude American thing to do. Ireland, the UK, France, Italy hate the inconvenience that Americans feel they have a special relationship, be happy/relieved that most of that dies with my generation and we have no connection to each other going forward. And my kids won because they much preferred the beach trips. Everyones happy and new traditions created so that Irish/Euro ones are no longer somehow made smaller by Americans excited to share in them.

Re: ‘Viking’ was a job, not a matter of heredity: ancient DNA study (2020)

#193

Post by selimthegrim »

steveBK123 wrote: post #44
selimthegrim wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was that one Indian guy who hit the gym, bleached his skin and hair and now does a pretty credible Viking impression.

Crazy what people will do for a government pension

If he got one more power to him

Re: ‘Viking’ was a job, not a matter of heredity: ancient DNA study (2020)

#194

Post by nillkiggers1488 »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #189
bazoom42 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are referring to the “Vikings”-show, you should be aware it is fiction and the roles sadly are played by professional actors, not genuine vikings.

Look at that user's handle please.

[dead]

Re: ‘Viking’ was a job, not a matter of heredity: ancient DNA study (2020)

#195

Post by marcus_holmes »

defrost wrote: post #156
hyppopocriaas wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's funny about those Europeans gatekeeping European ethnic identity from Americans, is that their tune will change immediately if we ask them if an African who has been there for 5 years is English or German. See the response from marcus_holmes about "Irishness" in this thread. It's essentially the position of ethnic nationalist parties like Restore Britain. But in a different context he'd be ranting about civic…

The AussiemBerg cultural test ain't that hard cobber .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drkcOzCjuuU == 100% True blood Aussie.

'kin oath

Re: ‘Viking’ was a job, not a matter of heredity: ancient DNA study (2020)

#196

Post by marcus_holmes »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #149
marcus_holmes wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You became American.

Identity doesn't work that way. Doesn't change where my family came from, my families traditions, what identity bits my family chose to hang onto, or how we try to understand the world. Good job keeping up your culture of being petty judges of us though. At least when your ancestors did it we were your neighbors and you had good cause (we were the wrong religion or whatever your ancestors hated in us and your family…

Hey, so I had a conversation with my wife last night about this. Really interesting. She challenged me on this, and pointed out that this is the exact same argument about trans folks, and that I was taking the same position as J K Rowling.

Now, while I think she made some good points at times, I don't agree with her, and it made me stop and think.

So, yeah, I've changed my mind on this. Go call yourself Irish if you want, or Saxon, or Viking, or whatever. Be whoever you want to be. Good luck to you.

Re: ‘Viking’ was a job, not a matter of heredity: ancient DNA study (2020)

#197

Post by bdhcuidbebe »

bazoom42 wrote: post #116
acadapter wrote: post #26

It is linguistically possible that "viking" was simply a self-referential ethnonym, with the first part meaning "home" or "village". https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-Eur... Compare Ancient Greek [w]oikos, and all the various ves, vas, wieś, which can be found all over Eastern Europe.

Do we have any historical source of people referring to themselves as vikings?

No, because they did not. Title is correct, it was a job not a tribe

Re: ‘Viking’ was a job, not a matter of heredity: ancient DNA study (2020)

#198

Post by samaltmanfried »

Throaway1982 wrote: post #184
samaltmanfried wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be. But they never do it, so I don't have to worry about it.

???? I live in Canada and people say this all the time. Always have. Had a friend growing up from an Italian-German family. Ate schnitzel, watched soccer, corrected us on our pronunciation of 'pasta.' Didn't speak any language other than English and his parents were 2nd generation Canadians, who also spoke nothing but English. My family came from Ukraine & Ireland 4 & 3 generations ago, respectively. Family gathering…

> perogies

Do you mean "pierogi," the Polish dumplings?

> halupschi

I have no idea what this is. Are you talking about галушка? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halu%C5%A1ky)

> Didn't speak any language other than English and his parents were 2nd generation Canadians, who also spoke nothing but English.

> Never spoke Ukrainian or heard any word of Ukrainian except for the names of the food & of some of my older relatives.

This insanely non-self-aware post perfectly illustrates my point.

Re: ‘Viking’ was a job, not a matter of heredity: ancient DNA study (2020)

#199

Post by JuniperMesos »

libraryatnight wrote: post #80
ecshafer wrote: post #8

I am not sure why they used this title for this study as that is not the important part. We already have known Viking was a job description, thats been known for hundreds of years. We also knew that viking settlement was widespread. This study used DNA sequencing to settle the debate on if vikings from certain areas went to certain areas, and if they mixed. It seems to confirm the theory that the norse did NOT mix, a…

I work in the US with white dudes who literally think their heritage is "Viking" and make it a big part of their identity - I appreciate your point but I also understand why someone might pick that title.

This is accurate if their family ancestry is from the Nordic countries, Britain or Ireland, which is a substantial chunk of Northern Europe (although in the latter cases the heritage looked more like male Viking invaders taking non-Norse wives from among the people they conquered for hundreds of years in the Danelaw or similar).

More broadly, the Norse were among the last people in Europe to be converted to Christianity, and their particular pagan traditions lasted long enough to be recorded and preserved in some form by medieval Christian writers, in a way that was not true of other Germanic peoples who were Christianized much earlier. So there's a sense in which our modern understanding of the pre-Christian Norse worldview is a stand-in for what must've been a more widespread set of European pagan traditions that were wiped out by Christianity. An incomplete and limited stand-in, of course, as any serious scholar of that world will tell you; but it makes sense that modern white people who have an interest in what their own ancient, pagan history might've been like - or for that matter people who have a sincere problem with Western Christianity and are seeking some kind of alternative spirituality - might look to the Norse world with interest, even if their share of genetic heritage from that world is minimal.

Re: ‘Viking’ was a job, not a matter of heredity: ancient DNA study (2020)

#200

Post by JuniperMesos »

vintermann wrote: post #166
henrikschroder wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those Europeans gatekeeping European ethnic identity No no no, no-one is gatekeeping ethnicity. If you have Irish heritage, you have Irish heritage. That's a fact. We're gatekeeping cultural identity and nationality, because these cosplaying Americans seem to think that their ethnicity confers culture and nationality by weird blood magic or something, and that's not how it works. > if we ask them if an African who…

It's not Americans doing these things. I've met plenty of Europeans with exotic identity claims, romanticizing some past culture instead of the living culture around them - Viking metal rather than folk music, to put it like that (there are also of course responsible ways to enjoy exotic metal genres). By making it into Americans vs. Europeans you're doing a bit of what you're criticizing yourself. Yeah sure, we all…

Viking metal is a folk music tradition of Europe! Just a very modern one that postdates the invention of the electric guitar and Tony Iommi losing his fingertips in an industrial accident :)

A lot of Viking-themed metal is pretty historically uninformed and cheesy, although that's true of lots of metal and for that matter lots of other art.

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