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Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

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Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why are these people not involved from the first place? Seems like a huge management/executive failure that the right people who needs to check off the design weren't involved until after developers implemented the feature. You seem to blame the person who is trying to save the company from security issues, rather than placing the blame on your boss that made you do work that would never gotten approved in the fir…

Because they don't respond to their emails until months after they were nominally brought into the loop. They sit back jerking their dicks all day, voicing no complaints and giving no feedback until the thing is actually done. Yes, management was ultimately at fault. They're at fault for not tard wrangling the security guys into doing their jobs up front. They're also at fault for not tard wrangling the security guys…

Yeah, I've had them complain to the President of the company that I didn't involve them sooner, with the pres having been in the room when I made the first request 12 months ago, the second 9 months ago, the third 6 months ago, etc.

They insist we can't let client data [0] "into the cloud" despite the fact that the client's data is already in "the cloud" and all I want to do is stick it back into the same "cloud", just a different tenant. Despite the fact that the vendor has certified their environment to be suitable for all but the most absolutely sensitive data (for which if you really insist, you can call then for pricing), no, we can't accept that and have to do our own audit. How long is that going to take? "2 years and $2 million". There is no fucking way. No fucking way that is the real path. There is no way our competitors did that. There is no way any of the startups we're seeing in this market did that. Or! Or! If it's true, why the fuck didn't you start it back two years ago when we installed this was necessary the first time? Hell, I'd be happy if you had started 18 months ago, or a year ago. Anything! You were told several times, but the president of our company, to make this happen, and it still hasn't happened?!?!

They say we can't just trust the service provider for a certain service X, despite the fact that literally all of our infrastructure is provided by same service provider, so if they were fundamentally untrustworthy then we are already completely fucked.

I have a project to build a new analytics platform thing. Trying to evaluate some existing solutions. Oh, none of them are approved to be installed on our machines. How do we get that approval? You can't, open source sideways is fundamentally untrustworthy. Which must be why it's at the core of literally every piece of software we use, right? Oh, but I can do it in our new cloud environment! The one that was supposedly provided by an untrustworthy vendor! I have a bought-and-paid-for laptop with fairly decent specs and they seriously expect me and my team to remote desktop into a VM to do our work, paying exorbitant monthly fees for equivalent hardware to what we will now have sitting basically idle on our desks! And yes, it will be "my" money. I have a project budget and I didn't expect to have to increase it 80% just because "security reasons". Oh yeah, I have to ask them to install the software and "burn it into the VM image" for me. What the fuck does that even mean!? You told me 6 months ago this system was going to be self-service!

We are entering our third year of new leadership in our IT department, yet this new leadership never guts the ranks of the middle managers who were the sticks in the mud. Two years ago we hired a new CIO. Last year we got a deputy CIO to assist him. This year, it's yet another new CIO, but the previous two guys aren't gone, they are staying in exactly their current duties, their titles have just changed and they report to the new guy. What. The. Fuck.

[0] To be clear, this is data the client has contracted us to do analysis on. It is also nothing to do with people's private data. It's very similar to corporate operations data. It's 100% owned by the client, they've asked us to do a job with it and we can't do that job.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#192
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the mini is just a better value, all things considered: First, a 16GB RPi that is in stock and you can actually buy seems to run about $220. Then you need a case, a power supply (they're sensitive, not any USB brick will do), an NVMe. By the time it's all said and done, you're looking at close to $400. I know HN likes to quote the starting price for the 1GB model and assume that everyone has spare NVMe sticks…

> In the real world, an M5 mini will give you a decent fraction of V100 performance In the real world, the M5 Mini is not yet on the market. Check your LLM/LLM facts ;)

An LLM would have got the Markdown list formatting correct.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#193
post #38

Why mac mini instead of something like a raspberry pi? Aren't thede claw things delegating inference to OpenAI, Antropic etc.?

They recommend a Mac Mini because it’s the cheapest device that can access your Apple reminders and iMessage. If you are into that ecosystem obviously.

If you don’t need any of that then any device or small VPS instance will suffice.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#194

Does anyone know a Claw-like that: - doesnt do its own sandboxing (I'll set that up myself) - just has a web UI instead of wanting to use some weird proprietary messaging app as its interface?

Openclaw! You can sandbox anything yourself. Use a VM. It has a web ui.

I don’t really understand the point of sandboxing if you’re going to give it access to all your accounts (which it needs to do anything useful). It reminds me of https://xkcd.com/1200/

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#195

  giving my private data/keys to 400K lines of vibe coded monster that is being actively attacked at scale is not very appealing at all
https://nitter.net/karpathy/status/2024987174077432126

If this were 2010, Google, Anthropic, XAI, OpenAI (GAXO?) would focus on packaging their chatbots as $1500 consumer appliances.

It's 2026, so, instead, a state-of-the-art chatbot will require a subscription forever.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#196

Does one really need to _buy_ a completely new desktop hardware (ie. mac mini) to _run_ a simple request/response program? Excluding the fact that you can run LLMs via ollama or similar directly on the device, but that will not have a very good token/s speed as far as I can guess...

You don’t, but for those who would like the agent to interact with Apple provided services like reminders and iMessage it works for that.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#197
post #76
post #53

IMO the security pitchforking on OpenClaw is just so overdone. People without consideration for the implications will inevitably get burned, as we saw with the reddit posts "Agentic Coding tool X wiped my hard drive and apologized profusely". I work at a FAANG and every time you try something innovative the "policy people" will climb out of their holes and put random roadblocks in your way, not for the sake of actual…

This may be a good place to exchange some security ideas. I've configured my OpenClaw in a Proxmox VM, firewalled it off of my home network so that it can only talk to the open Internet, and don't store any credentials that aren't necessary. Pretty much only the needed API keys and Signal linked device credentials. The models that can run locally do run locally, for example Whisper for voice messages or embeddings mo…

I was worried about the security risk of running it on my infrastructure, so I made my own:

https://github.com/skorokithakis/stavrobot

At least I can run this whenever, and it's all entirely sandboxed, with an architecture that still means I get the features. I even have some security tradeoffs like "you can ask the bot to configure plugin secrets for convenience, or you can do it yourself so it can never see them".

You're not going to be able to prevent the bot from exfiltrating stuff, but at least you can make sure it can't mess with its permissions and give itself more privileges.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#198
post #76
post #53

IMO the security pitchforking on OpenClaw is just so overdone. People without consideration for the implications will inevitably get burned, as we saw with the reddit posts "Agentic Coding tool X wiped my hard drive and apologized profusely". I work at a FAANG and every time you try something innovative the "policy people" will climb out of their holes and put random roadblocks in your way, not for the sake of actual…

This may be a good place to exchange some security ideas. I've configured my OpenClaw in a Proxmox VM, firewalled it off of my home network so that it can only talk to the open Internet, and don't store any credentials that aren't necessary. Pretty much only the needed API keys and Signal linked device credentials. The models that can run locally do run locally, for example Whisper for voice messages or embeddings mo…

If you're really into optimizing:

You don't need to store any credentials at all (aside from your provider key, unless you want to mod pi).

Your claw also shouldn't be able to talk to the open internet, it should be on a VPN with a filtering proxy and a webhook relay.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#199
post #73
post #38

Why mac mini instead of something like a raspberry pi? Aren't thede claw things delegating inference to OpenAI, Antropic etc.?

Some users are moving to local models, I think, because they want to avoid the agent's cost, or they think it'll be more secure (not). The mac mini has unified memory and can dynamically allocate memory to the GPU by stealing from the general RAM pool so you can run large local LLMs without buying a massive (and expensive) GPU.

I think any of the decent open models that would be useful for this claw frency require way more ram than any Mac Mini you can possibly configure.

The whole point of the Mini is that the agent can interact with all your Apple services like reminders, iMessage, iCloud. If you don’t need any just use whatever you already have or get a cheap VPS for example.

Re: Claws are now a new layer on top of LLM agents

#200
post #73
post #38

Why mac mini instead of something like a raspberry pi? Aren't thede claw things delegating inference to OpenAI, Antropic etc.?

Some users are moving to local models, I think, because they want to avoid the agent's cost, or they think it'll be more secure (not). The mac mini has unified memory and can dynamically allocate memory to the GPU by stealing from the general RAM pool so you can run large local LLMs without buying a massive (and expensive) GPU.

>they think it'll be more secure (not)

for these types of tasks or LLMs in general?

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