Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nobody knows how the whole system works

surfingcomplexity.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 226 posts

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#191

Post by BobbyTables2 »

scottLobster wrote: post #100
rorylaitila wrote: post #71

There are many layers to this. But there is one style of programming that concerns me. Where you neither understand the layer above you (why the product exists and what the goal of the system is) nor the layer below (how to actually implement the behavior). In the past, many developers barely understood the business case, but at least they understood how to translate into code, and could put backpressure on the busin…

The irony is "ownership" is a common management talking point, but when you actually try to take ownership you inevitably run into walls of access, a lack of information, and generally a "why are you here?" mentality. Granted one person can't know/do everything, but large companies in particular seem allergic to granting you any visibility whatsoever. It's particularly annoying when you're given a deadline, bust your…

Taking ownership is hard but fending it off is even harder.

I’ve been dragged into modifying my team’s product to fix deficiencies in others’ designs.

They didn’t want take ownership and freely pushed it onto us!

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#192

Post by BobbyTables2 »

lazystar wrote: post #118
scottLobster wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is "ownership" is a common management talking point, but when you actually try to take ownership you inevitably run into walls of access, a lack of information, and generally a "why are you here?" mentality. Granted one person can't know/do everything, but large companies in particular seem allergic to granting you any visibility whatsoever. It's particularly annoying when you're given a deadline, bust your…

> Granted one person can't know/do everything, watch me try, at least. > but large companies in particular seem allergic to granting you any visibility whatsoever. It's particularly annoying If the blind spot is directly causing customer pain, find metrics that demonstrate the impact. If it ends up driving away your customers, then your company is securing itself to death.

It’s a lot like the “how shit happens tale”.

The product may take 20 minute to boot - a testament to its complexity and greatness (/s). But pointing that out might end badly when it’s the SVP’s pet. They will not entertain alternatives or efforts that distract from their mental plan.

And if a developer finds themselves getting feedback or communication from customers, things are probably on fire - absolutely literally.

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#194

Post by joquarky »

cadr wrote: post #131
agumonkey wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's various degrees of understanding, for instance as a web dev, you know the browser, the osi network stack.. (in theory, there are a lot of tweaks) then maybe the electronics.. but the radio / wireless part is another world in itself with a totally different mindset (analog waves) which make the rabbithole way too long (and wide.. radio is a big world on its own)

Amateur radio is pretty approachable and has lots of opportunity to go down those rabbit holes.

And it teaches much more practical knowledge.

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#195

Post by joquarky »

skeptic_ai wrote: post #18
Animats wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Including the AI, which generated it once and forgot. This is going to be a big problem. How do people using Claude-like code generation systems do this? What artifacts other than the generated code are left behind for reuse when modifications are needed? Comments in the code? The entire history of the inputs and outputs to the LLM? Is there any record of the design?

I for one I save all conversations in the codebase. Includes both human prompts and outputs. But I’m using a modified codex to do so. Not sure why it’s not default as it’s useful to have this info.

It is probably not a default because it will use more tokens.

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#196

Post by joquarky »

shevy-java wrote: post #33
luckydata wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this an actual problem? Takes minutes for an AI to explore and document a codebase. Sounds like a non problem.

Is that documentation useful? I haven't seen a well-documented codebase by AI so far. To be fair - humans also fail at that. Just look at the GTK documentation as an example. When you point that out, ebassi may ignore you because criticism is unwanted; and the documentation will never improve, meaning they don't want new developers.

I've been coding for 40 years (23 years at an S&P500) and these coding agents write better documentation than I've ever seen from my peers. You just need to work with it and not expect it to do 100% of the work in one shot.

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#198

Post by idiotsecant »

krab wrote: post #176
idiotsecant wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, poof. Now everyone knows how to hunt, farm, and cook. What problem does this solve? In the event of breakdown of society there is nowhere near enough game or arable land near, for example, New York City to prevent mass starvation if the supply chain breaks down totally. This is a common prepper trope, but it doesn't make any sense. The actual valuable skill is trade connections and community. A group of people yo…

> This is a common prepper trope, but it doesn't make any sense. In case the supply chain breaks, preppers don't want to be the ones that starve. They don't claim they can prevent mass starvation. (Very off topic from the article)

Preppers are maybe the worst of the nonsense cosplay subcultures in modern memory. The moment things go south the people who come out ahead are always the people able to convince and control their fellow humans. The weirdo in the woods with the bunker gets his food stolen on like day 12. The post apocalypse warlord makes it through just fine. Better, maybe!

The key to survival has always been tribal dynamics. This wouldn't change in the apocalypse.

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#200

Post by skeptic_ai »

joquarky wrote: post #195
skeptic_ai wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one I save all conversations in the codebase. Includes both human prompts and outputs. But I’m using a modified codex to do so. Not sure why it’s not default as it’s useful to have this info.

It is probably not a default because it will use more tokens.

Why would it use more? I just have a hook that changes path of codex. So I can just write their files in my repo instead of in user folder
Post reply on HN