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Nobody knows how the whole system works

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Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#61

Post by g947o »

sceptic123 wrote: post #57
mamp wrote: post #3

Strange article. The problem isn’t that everyone doesn’t know how everything works, it’s that AI coding could mean there is no one who knows how a system works.

I read it more as: We already don't know how everything works, AI is steering us towards a destination where there is more of the everything. I would also add it's also possible it will reduce the number people that are _capable_ of understanding the parts it is responsible for.

Who's "we"?

I am sure engineers collectively understand how the entire stack works.

With LLM generated output, nobody understands how anything works, including the very model you just interacted with -- evident in "you are absolutely correct"

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#63

Post by idiotsecant »

ahnick wrote: post #8
virgilp wrote: post #5

That's not how things work in practice. I think the concern is not that "people don't know how everything works" - people never needed to know how to "make their own food" by understanding all the cellular mechanisms and all the intricacies of the chemistry & physics involved in cooking. BUT, when you stop understanding the basics - when you no longer know how to fry an egg because you just get it already prepared fr…

Most people have no idea how to hunt, make a fire, or grow food. If all grocery stores and restaurants run out of food for a long enough time people will starve. This isn't a problem in practice though, because there are so many grocery stores and restaurants and supply chains source from multiple areas that the redundant and decentralized nature makes it not a problem. Thus it is the same with making your own food.…

Ok, poof. Now everyone knows how to hunt, farm, and cook.

What problem does this solve? In the event of breakdown of society there is nowhere near enough game or arable land near, for example, New York City to prevent mass starvation if the supply chain breaks down totally.

This is a common prepper trope, but it doesn't make any sense.

The actual valuable skill is trade connections and community. A group of people you know and trust, and the ability to reach out and form mini supply chains.

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#64

Post by pixl97 »

j_m_b wrote: post #62
cbdevidal wrote: post #60

This also applies to other things. No one person knows how to make a pencil. Three minute video by Milton Friedman: https://youtu.be/67tHtpac5ws?si=nFOLok7o87b8UXxY

Also, no one knows how to make a Pizza! (great book for kids)

"To make an apple pie you must first create the universe "

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#66

Post by cucumber3732842 »

sceptic123 wrote: post #56
xorcist wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people have no idea how to hunt, make a fire, or grow food That's a bizarre claim, confidently stated. Of course I can make a fire, cook and my own food. You can, too. When it comes to hunting, skinning and the cutting of animals, that takes a bit more practice but anyone can manage something even if the result isn't pretty. If stores ran out of food we would have devastating problems but because of specializa…

I don't think they're saying _you_ can't do those things, just that most people can't which I have to agree with. They're not saying people can't learn those things either, but that's the practice you're talking about here. The real question is, can you learn to do it before you starve or freeze to death? Or perhaps poison yourself because you ate something you shouldn't or cooked it badly.

> The real question is, can you learn to do it before you starve or freeze to death? Or perhaps poison yourself because you ate something you shouldn't or cooked it badly.

You can eat some real terrible stuff and like 99.999% of the time only get the shits, which isn't really a concern if you have good access to clean drinking water and can stay hydrated.

The overwhelming majority of people probably would figure it out even if they wind up eating a lot of questionable stuff in the first month and productivity in other areas would dedicate more resources to it.

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#67

Post by finnthehuman »

PandaStyle wrote: post #13

Perhaps a dose of pragmatism is needed here? I am no CS major, nor do I fully understand the inner workings of a computer beyond "we tricked a rock into thinking by shocking it." I'd love to better understand it, and I hope that through my journey of working with computers, i'll better learn about these underlying concepts registers, bus's, memory, assembly etc Practically however, I write scripts that solve real wor…

Graybeards love to yap. Just talk to them or consume the wide amount of material already out there.

It takes curiosity on your part though. Handwaving about practical concerns taking priority is a path to never getting around to it. "Pragmatism" towards skills is how managers wind up with an overspecialized team and then tell themselves it was inevitable. The same can happen to you.

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#68

Post by pixl97 »

sceptic123 wrote: post #56
xorcist wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people have no idea how to hunt, make a fire, or grow food That's a bizarre claim, confidently stated. Of course I can make a fire, cook and my own food. You can, too. When it comes to hunting, skinning and the cutting of animals, that takes a bit more practice but anyone can manage something even if the result isn't pretty. If stores ran out of food we would have devastating problems but because of specializa…

I don't think they're saying _you_ can't do those things, just that most people can't which I have to agree with. They're not saying people can't learn those things either, but that's the practice you're talking about here. The real question is, can you learn to do it before you starve or freeze to death? Or perhaps poison yourself because you ate something you shouldn't or cooked it badly.

Can you list a situation where this matters that you know this personally?

Maybe if you end up alone and lost in a huge forest or the Outback, but this is a highly unlikely scenario.

If society falls apart cooking isn’t something you need to be that worried about unless you survive the first few weeks. Getting people to work together with different skills is going to be far more beneficial.

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#69

Post by pixl97 »

sciencejerk wrote: post #23
ahnick wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people have no idea how to hunt, make a fire, or grow food. If all grocery stores and restaurants run out of food for a long enough time people will starve. This isn't a problem in practice though, because there are so many grocery stores and restaurants and supply chains source from multiple areas that the redundant and decentralized nature makes it not a problem. Thus it is the same with making your own food.…

>If all grocery stores and restaurants run out of food for a long enough time people will starve. This isn't a problem in practice though... I fail to see how this isn't a problem? Grid failures happen? So do wars and natural disasters which can cause grids and supply chains to fail.

If they are at small scale then it's fine.

If it's at large scale then millions die of starvation.

Re: Nobody knows how the whole system works

#70

Post by foxes »

Isn't ceding all power to AIs run by tech companies kinda the opposite - if we have to have AI everywhere? Now no one knows how anything works (instead of everyone knowing a tiny bit and all working together), and also everyone is just dependent on the people with all the compute.
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