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UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

petition.parliament.uk

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Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#191

Post by MrJohz »

AftHurrahWinch wrote: post #170
michaelt wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they're only a proscribed group because the cabinet decided it was politically convenient to proscribe them. It's not like these guys are the Taliban or the IRA, though some of them did chuck some paint on some planes. So a person who is worried about Starmer's authoritarian tendencies lay responsibility for the police action at the door of number 10.

They destroyed "drone and aircraft machinery" [0] at APPH and at Teledyne "damage to the clean rooms could halt production for up to 12 months" [1]. [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-57403049 [1]: https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/pro-palestine-activists-dama...

That's an argument for arresting and imprisoning a bunch of people for criminal damage, not an argument for proscribing an entire organisation and limiting their free speech.

The argument here is not the PA should be let off scot free. The argument is that proscribing them as an organisation is a massive and authoritarian overreaction to their actions.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#192

Post by bamboozled »

reaperducer wrote: post #167
bamboozled wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sky is a really right wing partisan channel though, ofc they are going to say negative things about the incumbent government or basically anything it does. Not to say the idea is good or bad, but how people watch hyper-partisan media and draw any conclusions from it is beyond me.

Sky didn't say anything. The two talking heads from two different political parties said things. As an outsider, I have no idea if Sky News is "right wing" or not. I watch Sky and BBC because those are the two British services I can get where I am. (And occasionally ITV, but it seems to be all potatoes, and no meat.) I note that instead of addressing the topic of discussion, you deflect into another topic. Why is tha…

Sure, but it’s not like there media outlets just select any old person to discuss any old topic. They can choose who they want to be the mouthpiece for a certain topic and make sure they get plenty of airtime to say whatever is required…

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#193

Post by sackfield »

robotresearcher wrote: post #188
sackfield wrote: post #187

Keir Starmer is trying to sell this to public with the promise that it will curb illegal immigration. But by how much? And if that target isn't met, will it be rolled back? It always amazes me when governments hold themselves to such a low standard, and just fall back on "if you don't like it vote it out" while not recognising that the signal of a vote every 4 years can not meaningfully extract consent on this partic…

Representative democracy sucks, it just sucks less than everything else we’ve tried. Plebiscites on specific issues are terrible: that’s how we got Brexit and woke up the next day astonished that our neighbors had been so daft.

Brexit is an interesting case to bring up. As someone who voted against it, it is also clear to me that it hasn't been implemented in any way that could have made it a success from the representatives, and looks like a clear case of the representatives maliciously complying with a decree that they didn't agree with.

I remain unconvinced that we can't do better than a system of government that is over 200 years old that only exists as a function of the technology at the time.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#194

Post by crazygringo »

wkat4242 wrote: post #138
jen729w wrote: post #129

I don't trust the UK government either. But I'm both British and Australian and I see the need for a centralised identity service. Because the alternative is that we provide our passport to every online service that 'needs' to verify our identity. Then – lo, would you believe it! – they get hacked, and now all of our data is in the wild again . I'd much rather the government, who already know everything about me beca…

> Because the alternative is that we provide our passport to every online service that 'needs' to verify our identity. I really really really don't want to 'verify my identity' everywhere. Why the F is that normalised these days?? If I buy something online my payment and delivery address is all they should need. And all they've had to have for the last 30 years > I'd much rather the government, who already know every…

> If I buy something online my payment and delivery address is all they should need.

That's what verifying your identity is for. The payment. This cuts down on fraud. My credit cards often require me to enter a code they text me for a purchase to go through, when it's somewhere online I've never shopped before. That's confirming my identity. And my credit card needed my identity originally to look up my credit history, because they're literally loaning money.

Businesses want to know who you are to reduce fraud. Otherwise people input stolen credit cards, the charges get reversed, and the business is out of merchandise and money.

Obviously if you pay in something irreversible like Bitcoin then a business generally couldn't care less who you actually are, as long as there aren't any know-your-customer regulations (like if you're a bank or the address is in a sanctioned country etc).

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#196

Post by asdff »

animal_spirits wrote: post #189
asdff wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in the U.S. at least it literally determines where you are allowed to live. I don't know how you couldn't call it a social credit system.

It’s not a social credit system because it doesn’t weight your social involvement in the society (political party, school credentials, race) but rather payment history, amount of debt, types of credit

Simply things that correlate to social involvement I suppose. Quacks like a duck and all.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#197

Post by pkaodev »

dijit wrote: post #3

As well as the Estonia eID system works (aside from that time it got hacked[0] and that other time they leaked all the photos[1]) and how well a digital (non-government) system works in Scandinavia… I have to say… As a Dual British/Swedish Citizen, I really do not trust the UK government. They have proven over and over and over, that at every opportunity presented they will increase their own authority. I don’t belie…

Swedish ID system seems pretty great. Never had any of my family there complain about it, and it just seems to make a lot of life easier.

The issue I see with the UK's plan is it that so far everything the government is talking about is how it will stop illegal working, and that just seems like a reaction to reform's recent rise in polls. That by itself seems like a waste, because people working cash in hand surely won't be bothered by this new requirement.

I think it should go further so it actually becomes useful. Things like having people's benefit status accessible at pharmacies to prevent people simply saying "I don't pay for my prescription" (still blows my mind this is a thing).

What has the UK done to make you think it is becoming one of the most authoritarian advanced economies?

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#198

Post by pkaodev »

asdff wrote: post #196
animal_spirits wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a social credit system because it doesn’t weight your social involvement in the society (political party, school credentials, race) but rather payment history, amount of debt, types of credit

Simply things that correlate to social involvement I suppose. Quacks like a duck and all.

What are you on about? It's financial providers deciding whether you are or aren't risky for them to work with, based on your financial decisions.

Not repaying loans and using credit cards to get cash -> you're probably bad with money -> lenders are unlikely to get their money back from you.

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#199

Post by cellis »

Bender wrote: post #39
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That already happened: James VI of Scotland inherited the English (and Irish) throne. There's a pedantic sense in which the current English king is actually the Scottish king, not the other way around (although stronger pedantry would say the Hanoverian succession is sufficient to prove that whole line of reasoning a load of tosh). What would restoring the Scottish monarchy mean to you?

What would restoring the Scottish monarchy mean to you? Fully reclaim Scotland's historical sovereignty, create a clear and distinct break with the rest of the United Kingdom and breaking English narratives. My first act as king would be to build hundreds of underground nuclear and geothermal power plants, sever all connections to England, build massive data-centers and under ground cities to wait out WWIII. I would…

Can you come be president of the USA instead / too?

Re: UK Petition: Do not introduce Digital ID cards

#200

Post by TimorousBestie »

pkaodev wrote: post #198
asdff wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply things that correlate to social involvement I suppose. Quacks like a duck and all.

What are you on about? It's financial providers deciding whether you are or aren't risky for them to work with, based on your financial decisions. Not repaying loans and using credit cards to get cash -> you're probably bad with money -> lenders are unlikely to get their money back from you.

> based on your financial decisions

A lot of individuals saw their credit scores decline during the Great Recession, even if they weren’t involved in subprime lending.

This myth that credit scores are entirely due to your own financial decisions is up there with myths people believe about names or time zones.

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