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Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

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Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#191

Post by bluGill »

nkrisc wrote: post #144
themafia wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's everywhere. You design a new transmission to comply with federal regulations. The transmission is mostly an upgrade of previous designs and built in cooperation with multiple vendors. It's actually not a bad unit. Which is a problem because it will be too reliable. So you take a small accessory component, like a valve body, and you undersize it and built it out of inappropriate materials. It now starves the tran…

That seems like a worse way to sell cars than just making decent ones. They don’t event have to be great.

Across all the cars you made that $.10 savings per transmission adds up to a lot of money on the bottom line. So manufactures look for ways to cut costs.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#192

Post by ethagnawl »

eitally wrote: post #141
bradley13 wrote: post #91

I would like to see some legal and regulatory steps. When we purchased our Ioniq, there was no agreement for data sharing, etc. - we have basically a cash register receipt, nothing more. Whenever there is a major update, an insanely long T&A appears on the screen. No one is going to read it. The only options are "accept" or clicking it away. If you click it away, it comes back the next day. It cannot possibly be lega…

I recently had a similarly unfriendly experience in my inlaws' new Lexus, which has an accompanying mobile app for vehicle management and some advanced setup features. How did we learn about this almost completely required app & mobile setup process? If you start driving with Google Maps via Android Auto it will terminate the AA interface after a few minute and replace it with a nag screen about setting up the Lexus…

> There is no alternative but to comply.

Maybe not within the confines of the head unit but you can still stick your phone onto the dash like I do in my (dumb) cars.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#193

Post by bluGill »

shawn_w wrote: post #8
judge123 wrote: post #4

I'm starting to think the short software support isn't a bug, it's a feature. They want the car to feel obsolete in 5 years so you're pushed into buying the next model. It's the smartphone sales model, but for a $50,000 purchase.

Planned obsolescence

Thought it isn't quite as bad as stated - manufactures need their cars to have value as used cars for a while because very few people could afford to pay $70k for a new car without trading in something else that is still work $35k. And those people buying the $35k car in turn expect it to hold value for a while (either so they can trade it in for $15k in 5 years, or they expect to keep running for 10 years).

Which is to say if they made cars that only lasted 3 years they could only charge $35k for the high end ones, and a lot of people would be looking to buy a base model without the optional heater. Or worse for them, if cars become too unaffordable people will start demanding good public transit.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#194

Post by philistine »

bluGill wrote: post #184
rimunroe wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has this ever happened with CarPlay? As far as I know, even if your car was made in 2013 when CarPlay was first released it should continue to work just fine with the newest iPhones. If you plug the latest iPhone into your 2013 car, you would see the latest version of CarPlay pop up on the screen. I know there's a new version of CarPlay which requires support from the car maker, but I think CarPlay support is a binar…

I would hope so, but I don't trust computer makers. There are people who still use cars made in the 1960s as their daily driver (probably only a handful in the US). Most parts are still available, and if not you can make them in your garage with affordable tools (metal lathes are rare but not unheard of in a home shop). Apple switch to OSX, m68k to PPC to x86 (ARM is in progress). I had the first android phone - the…

On the other hand, Apple is quick to get rid of old APIs in their software, but they consider features sacrosanct. Only this Fall will macOS lose support for Firewire, which finally means that we have a version of macOS that doesn't support the first iPod. Which came out in 2001. All the USB iPods will still connect and sync.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#195

Post by netsharc »

ethagnawl wrote: post #192
eitally wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had a similarly unfriendly experience in my inlaws' new Lexus, which has an accompanying mobile app for vehicle management and some advanced setup features. How did we learn about this almost completely required app & mobile setup process? If you start driving with Google Maps via Android Auto it will terminate the AA interface after a few minute and replace it with a nag screen about setting up the Lexus…

> There is no alternative but to comply. Maybe not within the confines of the head unit but you can still stick your phone onto the dash like I do in my (dumb) cars.

I bought a 2020 car recently. It comes with Android Auto, whereas previously I'd just mount my phone to the dashboard. But with Android Auto, every time the voice gives out a navigation instruction, music playing from the infotainment is paused; in my previous car the voice would play from my phone, on top of the music coming out of the car's sound system.

So I've ordered a mount so I can mount my phone to the car again...

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#196

Post by netsharc »

echoangle wrote: post #108
mook wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CarPlay Ultra sounds like it's extending it further? That is, it's still essentially VNC† with some data fed from the car and rendered by the phone, but now with multi-monitor support. † it's more complicated than that, but still a dumb framebuffer.

I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators? I thought the main image would be rendered on the car using local data and only the entertainment stuff is transferred from the phone. And also, how would you drive your car withou…

> I can't imagine that the image shown in CarPlay Ultra is still rendered on the phone. It's used to show all driving relevant things (speed etc.). Is a wireless connection to the phone reliable enough so this would be allowed by regulators?

For efficiency's sake, I hope it's like a theme (in the style of Winamp, or well, Windows XP), so you can pick some theme on your phone, and the phone tells the car to use that theme while rendering the car's instruments. For UI elements needing data from the phone (like album cover image), the theme would tell the car computer to fetch it from the phone. Considering the state of the tech industry, it's probably HTML and CSS too. And Javascript. Goatse anyone?

By the way... who the hell thinks it's important that someone operating a 800+ horsepower car should be able to be distracted by what the album cover of the music currently playing looks like..?

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#197

Post by jonbiggums22 »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #173
Version467 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And insisting on building their own mediocre ui helps them achieve that how exactly? Maybe I'm just super out of touch on how people use their cars, but my cars infotainment system has not made its manufacturer any additional money as far as I can tell.

Once you have the data the money can be figured out later. You can figure out how people use the car and what features matter to them and upsell or upcharge for those features in the next line. You can cross-advertise (oh you listen to music when driving here's Spotify deal through us and behind-the-scenes we get a cut for lead generation to Spotify). You can use the information to defend in lawsuits. Oh our car is f…

Don't forget selling the driving data to insurance companies, private investigators, law enforcement, etc.

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#199

Post by uxp100 »

mprovost wrote: post #101
lan321 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't believe even OEMs ever managed to make a very liked electric car on an ICE platform.

At least in the UK the Kia Niro comes in petrol, plug-in hybrid, and full EV versions of the same chassis. It seems like most Uber drivers in London have replaced their hybrid Prius with an EV Niro.

I think the latest Niro is kinda the opposite, an EV platform retrofitted for ICE for some models. I would say it is well liked (for its size and price point)

Re: Vanishing from Hyundai’s data network

#200

Post by farmdve »

aidenscott2016 wrote: post #116
farmdve wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am actually fascinated by car electronics. I had heavily modified the software on mine, but it was easier than modern stuff, no encryption of the code, and even the checksum code only triggered a DTC with no consequences. The only module that was encrypted was the main module, but it if you knew the security PIN you could do what you wanted. It was determined by people that if you observed the jitter of the CAN lin…

P2 Volvo?

You guessed correctly.
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