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Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

digitalcourage.social

191–200 of 377 posts

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a solution if it passes with "Client-side scanning". Basically a AI bot watching your screen all day. You're gonna need a whole secure deviant device.

That is not what the law is about. It is client side scanning embedded in the apps themselves. Each app will have to deploy their own mechanism to intercept the messages. This is not (yet) an OS level scan so there is no AI bot watching your moves on your device yet. Furthermore the AI part will run on their own servers, not on the device. Precisely, the way it has been described, is when you hit the send button, it…

That seems like it will be largely useless. Sure, the masses will continue using a bugged WhatsApp. But anyone with actual interesting/llegal things to say will switch over to an open source messaging app that hasn't been bugged.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#192
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Danish and I fucking hate my government for this. Nationally, the minister of justice Peter Hummelgaard is also pushing for a law which gives the police intelligence agency (PET) the right to basically do mass surveillance of everyone without prior suspicion of any criminal activity. If passed, they will be allowed to build a database of everyone which correlates social media activity with health care data and a…

I think that's a great idea. I for one want to enable our governments to track down criminals and punish them for it. If they're not doing everything they can do so in this technological and digital age, then they are breaking their part of that pesky "social contract" I am being upheld to. And to people like you that oppose this and propose even more authoritarian laws that prevent me as a citizen from protecting my…

Do you see any drawbacks with giving our authorities total information about you me and everybody else?

Perhaps potential for misuse?

Because as I understand the world, the people who hold the most power are generally not the best people.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#193
Karl Popper, "The open society and its enemies":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

It's all about the paradox of tolerance.

That chat control attempt is a direct result of the paradox of tolerance.

The thing that makes me sick to my stomach is that some of the worst of worst intolerant discourse is going to be allowed and protected because it's "religious": because we are open, tolerant, societies we are tolerant with intolerance.

If you have a holy book that calls for killing non-believers and taking their wive and daughters as sex slaves: that's fine because, see, it's religious.

If you want to discuss that holy book online with your fellow believers: that's fine because, see, it's religious.

But any talk criticizing that is going to be criminalized, crushed, pointed out as "far right" or any non-sense like that.

It's shooting the messenger.

Guess what's one of the issue concerning many people in a great many european cities at the moment? People feeling that religious extremism and obscurantism, middle-age style, is making a comeback.

And people are organizing marches all over the EU.

The last thing the EU wants is people on social media organizing themselves and protesting because they don't want the EU to become the next Syria or Somalia: most in the EU do not want the EU to become an intolerant continent.

You could say that any chat control is bad. But that chat control is going to be used prevent the criticism of intolerance.

It's really sad: I already moved three times, lived over four different countries (all in the EU) and now I'm planning to leave the EU while I still can (not that there are that many great places where I can realistically go).

P.S: for those in the US you should cherish your first amendment

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#194
post #19

Entire world seems to be making a pivot to surveillance state :(

The entire world realized that now that the Internet has killed off all of the third places / IRL meetings, and social media killed off the decentralized Internet, it's quite easy to fully control the discourse around any topic, since only a few social media organizations effectively decide what everyone sees (even if you're independent, Social Media decides which ideas/content gets traffic). Question is, how do we g…

By increasing the level of democracy and decentralizing the government.

Generally the more democratic a country is, the less hostile the government is against the people, from my observations.

If you decentralise, any damage will be localised and would affect fewer people.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#195
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That website is pretty bad. Don't say "act now" with a link when the link has no concrete actions listed. "Ask your government not to do that" means absolutely nothing. There should be a list of what people should do step by step based on their country.

This link is full of the usual self-promoting priorities of politicians, and the modern "influencers" who mimic them. 1. Redirects to someone's personal-name Web site. 2. The top heading on the page is their personal name and what seems to be personal logo. 3. Immediately below that logo the navbar entry for "ABOUT ME / CONTACT". 4. The last entry in the navbar is "GET INVOLVED", and the first entry of that menu is "…

On the other hand, Patrick Beyer is doing more for internet freedom than any other person I know.

Who else is fighting chat control and informing the population as well?

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#196
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for any legislation piece. A law that costs 100M people $1 and benefits 100 people with $1M. Would be, as you noted, costly to oppose, not worth the $1 nor the time. And at the same time, very profitable for the 100 to spend hundreds of thousands and great effort lobbying for. It's just the power structure of any representative legislature. "In vain do we fly to the many"...

This is the case for so many things… it is why every attempt to make filling out your taxes in the United States fails completely.

What does it mean "to make filling out your taxes"??

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#197
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for any legislation piece. A law that costs 100M people $1 and benefits 100 people with $1M. Would be, as you noted, costly to oppose, not worth the $1 nor the time. And at the same time, very profitable for the 100 to spend hundreds of thousands and great effort lobbying for. It's just the power structure of any representative legislature. "In vain do we fly to the many"...

A possible countermeasure could be to make the life of politicians (which we will of course all name individually) who voted for such laws a hell on earth ...

Other than shooting them? But they hire security… it's quite hard to hit them without hitting anyone else.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#198
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for any legislation piece. A law that costs 100M people $1 and benefits 100 people with $1M. Would be, as you noted, costly to oppose, not worth the $1 nor the time. And at the same time, very profitable for the 100 to spend hundreds of thousands and great effort lobbying for. It's just the power structure of any representative legislature. "In vain do we fly to the many"...

Plato's "republic" (one of the worst books in human history) and every justification in that book and every book citing it is trotted out to argue for how bad direct democracy is. Now we act like it's not good because Athens got its shit pushed in by Sparta during the Peloponnesian war. Direct democracy is good. One person one vote, on all legislation, actually could work. We haven't even tried at scale in thousands…

Have you ever read the (full) text of any bill that has been passed during the last couple of decades? How about reading all of them?

So are you proposing people vote on them without reading them? Or that we write very short bills aimed at a non-lawyer audience, effectively leaving most decisions up to the interpretation by courts? Or something else?

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the case for so many things… it is why every attempt to make filling out your taxes in the United States fails completely.

What does it mean "to make filling out your taxes"??

The omission was likely in that the failure is in trying to make filing taxes simple.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#200
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for any legislation piece. A law that costs 100M people $1 and benefits 100 people with $1M. Would be, as you noted, costly to oppose, not worth the $1 nor the time. And at the same time, very profitable for the 100 to spend hundreds of thousands and great effort lobbying for. It's just the power structure of any representative legislature. "In vain do we fly to the many"...

A possible countermeasure could be to make the life of politicians (which we will of course all name individually) who voted for such laws a hell on earth ...

What does that mean, precisely?
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