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"Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

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Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#191

Post by nightshift1 »

hoppp wrote: post #163
globalise83 wrote: post #124

This system was designed and implemented by engineers who committed code in a source control system with their name attached, and the changes were requested by product managers in tickets in the ticketing system with their name attached. Those engineers and product managers should be personally liable for an equivalent % of their annual salary as Facebook is liable for a % of its annual revenue.

Its unethical for sure, seems like some engineers will do anything for their salary, but if they don't do it somebody else will and it is an exciting technical challenge. Its better to blame the management and higher ups or zuck himself directly. Blame the people who finance it and profit from it, not the people who coded it. Follow the money

and they call themselves "engineer"

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#192

Post by genocidicbunny »

brookst wrote: post #72
genocidicbunny wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't fully agree because the way I see it, that is in a way scapegoating the company executives. Are they responsible? Probably, yes, they set the direction of the company and give the orders at the highest level. But we the engineers and designers are the ones actually implementing what is probably a fairly nebulous order at the highest levels into something concrete. They deign that there should be evil created,…

Do you also take personal responsibility for your company’s hiring practices, investment strategy, and marketing content? None of that would exist without you. I think anyone would agree that there’s a level of flagrantly where individuals should feel culpability and make the right choices (“write software to prescribe poison to groups we don’t like”). But something like this? Two apps establishing a comms channel? H…

When I was involved in the hiring pipeline, I absolutely felt a level of personal responsibility since I was directly contributing to the decision to hire or not hire an applicant. That's not to say I was willing to shoulder the entirety of the responsibility, but knowing that my decision would affect not only the applicant, but their potential future coworkers too, I did feel responsible for making sure I had as much information as I could get and that I was making the best decisions I could.

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#193

Post by remram »

fifilura wrote: post #162
BlarfMcFlarf wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically, fines replace tax revenue, so you get compensated by lower taxes. (Practically, spending and income are decoupled and taxes are mostly just an inflation management strategy.)

I can understand it of course. But in this case I feel personally offended. I would like to see the money handed to me.

If most people in your country use Meta apps, whether it's a tax discount spread across the population or a payout spread across the userbase doesn't make a difference.

Personally I would like to see some execs go to prison, rather than taxing/fining a monopolistic corporation, which achieves nothing.

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#194

Post by saintfire »

fifilura wrote: post #122

If this fine is collected. Will I get the money? Serious question. I don't generally mind paying taxes and all that. But in this case I feel I am the person offended and I should get some kind of compensation. I'd say €1-2000 would make me feel somewhat compensated.

I have an anecdote about fines not being about making a victim whole.

I was hit by a hit-and-run while driving my car. Totally destroyed the back-end.

I personally investigated and gathered info/videos to figure out the car and plates because the police essentially said they couldn't be bothered.

After finding out the owner of the car the insurance company said that under their criteria it was no longer a hit-and-run and I'm not covered by them. The person did not have insurance.

The law here is the owner of the vehicle faces a $2000 fine, plus the $2000 fine for a vehicle being operated without insurance. I was subpoenaed as a witness (lol) to the hit and run, for which I had to take a day off work.

So, the government earned a cool $4000 for my troubles, and i was out a $3000 car and a day of work.

I've since accepted that fines are just a lazy blunt instrument that serve as nothing more than a deterrent; not a way to fix past injustices. Maybe obvious but still counter intuitive when you're the wronged party.

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#196

Post by fifilura »

saintfire wrote: post #194
fifilura wrote: post #122

If this fine is collected. Will I get the money? Serious question. I don't generally mind paying taxes and all that. But in this case I feel I am the person offended and I should get some kind of compensation. I'd say €1-2000 would make me feel somewhat compensated.

I have an anecdote about fines not being about making a victim whole. I was hit by a hit-and-run while driving my car. Totally destroyed the back-end. I personally investigated and gathered info/videos to figure out the car and plates because the police essentially said they couldn't be bothered. After finding out the owner of the car the insurance company said that under their criteria it was no longer a hit-and-run…

Thank you for your reply.

For me I think a personal handout would also serve as a kind of apology. I guess this is what I am after.

"We purposefully infringed your privacy by breaking the law. And made a sh*tload of money because of that violation. Here is the money back with some extra compensation. We are sorry. We promise to never do it again."

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#197

Post by throw10920 »

jayd16 wrote: post #151
haliskerbas wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

How often you're asked has no bearing on the morality or criminality of the ask. Hitmen can't just say "but I keep getting hired to kill people."

Comparing engineers writing tracking code for ads, to hitmen killing people, is an extremely dishonest and emotionally manipulative comparison. These things aren't even in the same category, and you know it.

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#198

Post by throw10920 »

globalise83 wrote: post #124

This system was designed and implemented by engineers who committed code in a source control system with their name attached, and the changes were requested by product managers in tickets in the ticketing system with their name attached. Those engineers and product managers should be personally liable for an equivalent % of their annual salary as Facebook is liable for a % of its annual revenue.

This is such an incredibly bad (ignorant and/or malicious) idea in so many ways, chief of which is the incredible power asymmetry between bosses and subordinates in Facebook (and most other companies).

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#199

Post by __turbobrew__ »

riddley wrote: post #140

I'm guessing I'll get down-voted for this, but what's to stop any browser/executable from trolling through /proc on Linux and knowing about what every process running as you is doing?

Nothing, notably programs like discord do exactly this under the guise of detecting if you are playing a game or not, but I find it hard to believe that discord can resist the temptation to send back the entire process tree to their servers.

Re: "Localhost tracking" explained. It could cost Meta €32B

#200

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

"Meta faces simultaneous liability under the following regulations, listed from least to most severe: GDPR, DSA, and DMA (I'm not even including the ePrivacy Directive because it's laughable)."

Also not included:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/70448987/1/rose-v-meta-...

The wiretapping claims carry damages of $5,000 per violation.

It could be he thinks this is laughable like the ePrivacy Directive.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/metas-facebook-pay-90-mil...

https://dicellolevitt.com/case-study/facebook-agrees-to-pay-...

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