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CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

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Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#191

Post by Mikhail_Edoshin »

modeless wrote: post #142
masswerk wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because artists need an at least semi-competent vis-a-vis, AKA audience. This is the main proposition for entering a stage to begin with. And chances are that the most economical potent ticket buyers are not in this group and probably also not the most enthusiastic about the act. So there's a natural incentive to aim not for the highest cap, but for a somewhat realistic medium. I.e., "the prices people are willing to…

If people paying high prices for tickets makes the event worse, as people seem to believe without evidence, then prices will come down, solving the problem naturally. These arguments make zero sense.

About 30 years ago there was a computer shop that initially carried a lot of equipment, so it was popular among the enthusiasts. Then they decided to optimise things, drop less popular choices and only sell to the general public.The enthusiasts left. Then left the general public . Turned out that when a layman wanted to buy something they usually seeked advice of a local expert, a computer enthusiast.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#192

Post by notTooFarGone »

abetusk wrote: post #91
cedws wrote: post #86

I don’t get it - why not just tie the ticket to a name and address at time of purchase? Then verify that matches the person using government issued ID upon entry?

How would you handle the following conditions? * I buy a ticket for a friend (maybe as a present) but don't actually want to go to the concert * I buy more than one ticket for a group of people (I'll be attending the concert) * I buy a ticket but have to cancel at the last minute and want to give it to a friend * I don't have an easily available government ID (maybe I never got a drivers license, maybe my drivers lic…

The only valid solution is governments that offer something like OIDC providers using your ID card. You yourself can create a token that verifies that you are you and additionally there can be manual checking if the ID card matches you.

This way a platform also does not need to handle any sensitive data.

A ticket provider would have to allow reassigning tickets to other people through their platform - make it a "maximum 3 people for automatic approval".

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#194

Post by Symbiote »

sealeck wrote: post #167
abetusk wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is maybe the answer, but I'd like to at least acknowledge that this is what's being proposed: Buying tickets for shows has the same security requirements and domestic and international flights.

This is not the proposal. The proposal is to ensure people's names match their tickets. Additionally, I think most people at concerts support security measures that would improve their safety and avoid a rerun of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Arena_bombing

How is checking names going to prevent terrorists with guns?

The article isn't clear (as I'm not familiar with Manchester Arena and the names of the rooms) but a man was allowed in with a bomb in a bag. Showing id (or not) wouldn't have been the problem.

(And incidentally, it's not required to show identification for flights within Europe's Schengen area.)

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#195

Post by xorcist »

EGreg wrote: post #148
frabcus wrote: post #19

The option that strikes me as missing, is making users pay a cost before they are randomly entered in a lottery for the ticket. So, for example, everyone pays $0.01 on their credit card, or does a holding charge on their credit card, or registers their identity. All in a 5 minute (or 1 day!) window. And then after the window, tickets are randomly distributed amongst every card which so registered. You could check mul…

I asked why are school vouchers bad since it’s a single payer system. The “progressives” told me it would starve public schools of funds and students since private schools would admit only the best and brightest So I said — don’t let the schools choose. Let the people choose. If the school is filled then you use a lottery for who can actually get in, M of N people. Simple.

That has been tried before. What happens is that people choose the school where there is easiest to get good grades. Fast forward a generation or two and there is a race to the bottom, schools take their mission to prepare for standardized testing seriously at the expense of learning. Over time, our outcome will depend on what you measure.

School systems are also special because you don't really want to overprovision school seats, so if there at the end of the day are as many seats as there are pupils in the system as a whole, there can only be selection and never competition in the economic sense.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#196

Post by johnisgood »

babush wrote: post #190
modeless wrote: post #44

I am unsympathetic when people insist on selling things for the wrong price and then come up with these elaborate schemes for fixing the problems they themselves caused. If they would simply sell tickets for the prices people are willing to pay in the first place then they wouldn't need to invade privacy or any of this stuff. I've heard the arguments they use to justify why they don't and they're all hogwash.

I am unsympathetic to people who insist on reducing everything to its market value. I've heard the arguments they use to justify why they do and they're all hogwash.

> I am unsympathetic to people who insist on reducing everything to its market value.

What is wrong with market price?

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#197

Post by worldsayshi »

Matheus28 wrote: post #11

How about: each user creates an account with their legal ID. Obviously unique so they can’t create multiple using the same ID. Before the sale, everyone signs up. Once the sale is started, tickets are distributed using a lottery system for the users who signed up (so refreshing like mad doesn’t give any advantage). Can only buy up to 2 tickets per person (their own and an anonymous companion). ID must be shown and wo…

I think legal eID + some kind of zero knowledge proof that provides anonymization could provide the solution here.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#198

Post by xxs »

theamk wrote: post #174
tripplyons wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great example of the problem with ticket prices. The problem is that the price they were originally sold at was not a fair market price.

Well yes, the concert is funded by city, and they wanted everyone to have a chance at attending, no matter what their income was. Not everything needs to be sold. The problem there was not having enough security - it's like store giving out free popcorn, and someone comes and steals the whole cart. In the physical world, there would be someone standing next to the cart watching that people take reasonable amounts. In…

A solution:

It's NL and the everyone has a personal id. There is a national service to validate that, too.

One week accepting of requests - a person can submit multiple id (incl. children). At the end of the period a random lottery with some bias to people registered in the city (in the end the event is paid by them)

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#199

Post by metladsl »

timshell wrote: post #173

I'm a founder in this space (www.roundtable.ai; YC S23) Behavior is a big missing link. Many CAPTCHA services (including Google reCAPTCHA v3) claim to use behavioral analyses, but you can disprove this using Operator to fill out a form and see reCAPTCHA and other bot detection systems flag it as a human. At Roundtable, we rely on first-order behavioral markers (keystroke, mouse, scroll, click) etc. When first-order a…

that's not entirely true. reCAPTCHA v3 relies on your Google account as a signal and what activities it has performed out in the wild. It's not exactly privacy-conscious, but certainly behavioral.

Re: CAPTCHAs are over (in ticketing)

#200

Post by johnisgood »

BrenBarn wrote: post #164
ahtihn wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should ticket sales be regulated? Why should the government care about what price event tickets sell for? Concerts are pure luxury. I like going to concerts, but I don't see a reason why the government should intervene? Scalpers exist because artists underprice tickets on purpose.

Because most people don't like scalpers, and the government is a way for people to incentivize the society they want.

> for people to incentivize the society they want.

Speak for yourself (pun intended).

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