Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

deno.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 210 posts

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#191

Post by robertlutece »

anon7000 wrote: post #186
skybrian wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s how they addressed momentum: > Since the release of Deno 2 last October - barely over six months ago! - Deno adoption has more than doubled according to our monthly active user metrics. The obvious question is: doubled, but compared to what? And what are they measuring? They’re not disclosing any real metrics on adoption. I think what happened is that people were giving them the benefit of the doubt because th…

Monthly active users is a real measurement.

sure, but from 1 to 2 or from 1M to 2M

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#192

Post by aryonoco »

mosura wrote: post #26
wyuenho wrote: post #5

Most developers weren’t deploying simple stateless functions. They were building full-stack apps: apps that talk to a database, that almost always is located in a single region. I wonder if this is true in general for most people on serverless these days. If so, whether this is what the original intention of this movement and whether these people just don't want to deal with docker/k8s.

My gut feeling is that people want a modernized heroku. Managed RDBMS and an auto scaling set of servers that use it. That covers a massive proportion of the companies that don’t need or want massive scale.

Isn’t that Supabase?

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#193

Post by Cthulhu_ »

robertlutece wrote: post #191
anon7000 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monthly active users is a real measurement.

sure, but from 1 to 2 or from 1M to 2M

In 2022 it was 250.000 monthly users [0], according to a "community" blurb on their homepage they have over 400.000 [1].

[0] https://deno.com/blog/changes#a-large-and-growing-ecosystem

[1] https://deno.com/

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#194

Post by Cthulhu_ »

FunnyLookinHat wrote: post #179
mark_and_sweep wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My favorite testing framework, AVA, still isn’t supported. Have you checked recently? The docs ( https://docs.deno.com/runtime/fundamentals/testing/ ) specifically mention AVA as being supported. Then again, I'd assume that most devs using Deno just use the built-in `deno test` instead of a third-party testing framework. > The one area of Node compatibility that I want the most is support for ESLint configs in the…

> And I'm actually quite happy that most Deno projects don't have a custom testing and linting setup. I feel similarly. The standard configurations (e.g. tsconfig, linting, formatting) and bolts-included tooling (test, lint, fmt, etc.) are what make Deno so great for developers. I've started using Deno in my spare time for various projects - and it just _feels_ more productive. I go from idea to testing TypeScript in…

> The standard configurations (e.g. tsconfig, linting, formatting) and bolts-included tooling (test, lint, fmt, etc.) are what make Deno so great for developers.

And that's great for greenfield projects - although there's competition with Biome and Vite / Vitest for a lot of those - but the vast majority of Node use today is existing projects, and at least at one point Deno (and Bun, maybe others) were marketed (I think?) as a drop-in replacement for NodeJS. But maybe I'm misremembering.

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#195

Post by Cthulhu_ »

IshKebab wrote: post #158

> Most developers weren’t deploying simple stateless functions. They were building full-stack apps: apps that talk to a database Honestly that seemed really obvious from the start - it's hard to think of many use cases where this isn't the case. Glad they realised anyway.

> it's hard to think of many use cases where this isn't the case

Especially in 2021 (iirc) the lambda and edge function architectures were being pushed hard, so it's understandable they went in this direction at the time. But like with all things, eventually things balance out and you realise most software is still "old fashioned".

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#196

Post by rtpg »

int_19h wrote: post #188
rtpg wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what I've done is run the bundler across test code so that my test suite is also "just" JS, but that precludes certain kind of code flows without some hacks, so I get why people don't like it much.

I'm also doing this in Node, but it slows things down quite a bit, which for tests in particular can be painful if you have them set up to run automatically in the background. And for build scripts, it's not a usable approach because those are the ones that run the bundler. Now, one can argue that you shouldn't really need static typing for build scripts... and yet I have found valid bugs when switching them from JS…

Yeah, you're right on that, and I do appreciate the value of, well, not bundling. I just have had loads of weirdness with things like "ran my test suite with `tsc`/`node-ts`, bundled with `webpack`, and weird side effects existed downstream of that".

I think my complaint is less that these runtimes do nothing, but more that I would expect them to do _even more_. But I'm not trying to make things much better.

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#198

Post by mosura »

aryonoco wrote: post #192
mosura wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My gut feeling is that people want a modernized heroku. Managed RDBMS and an auto scaling set of servers that use it. That covers a massive proportion of the companies that don’t need or want massive scale.

Isn’t that Supabase?

No, that is just a database and runner for functions.

Heroku simplified deployment and operations dramatically, specifically for full Rails apps.

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#199

Post by bredren »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #130
bredren wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not esbuild? It was ~fast enough first and free of capital entanglements.

Bun is still faster, and Bun's testing is insanely fast -- I had a test suite that would take 30 seconds with Jest that finished in 800ms with bun. Plus Bun's networking performance is insane compared to Node, and you can have a lot more concurrent clients in a light vpc (think 1gb).

I think you're saying the integration of fast testing and building is what moves the needle for you? Because esbuild is limited to the build portion. I haven't explored fast testing alternatives to pair with esbuild.

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#200

Post by 4ndrewl »

IshKebab wrote: post #158

> Most developers weren’t deploying simple stateless functions. They were building full-stack apps: apps that talk to a database Honestly that seemed really obvious from the start - it's hard to think of many use cases where this isn't the case. Glad they realised anyway.

Well it's 95% of the real world, but probably only 5% of the hype world.
Post reply on HN