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Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

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Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#121

Post by hungryhobbit »

diggan wrote: post #97
mattlondon wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep I control the stack, and I want it to be typescript. At this stage, I don't think anyone needs to try and persuade anyone why JavaScript and typescript are the Lingua Franca of software engineering. Performant, expressive, amazing tooling (not including node/npm), natively cross-platform. An absolute joy to code with. Why would anyone want to use anything else for general purpose coding? In my mind there are two…

> anyone why JavaScript and typescript are the Lingua Franca of software engineering. I mean, it obviously isn't, although for web development, I'd probably agree with you. But regardless, zealots who hold opinions like this, where there is "one language to rule them all" is why discussing with TS peeps is so annoying. In your world, there is either C or TypeScript, but for the rest of us, we tend to use different la…

Do you know what lingua franca means?

https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2024/technology#most-popular... ... JS is the most popular language in the world, per Stack Overflow.

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#122

Post by bityard »

afavour wrote: post #94
nchmy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be that they added node compatibility because people wanted node compatibility. If investors pushed for it as well, then they were just being sensible... I started working with JS/TS just before Deno 2 came out and having, essentially, full node (and TypeScript) compatibility was the primary reason I switched to it. It is all just so simple in comparison to node. But, I agree about the VC funding - it certai…

> Could it be that they added node compatibility because people wanted node compatibility I imagine that’s exactly the reason! But they outlined their reasoning for a clean break pretty well in their 1.0 announcement post[1] and they haven’t, to my knowledge, posted a follow up “here’s why we were wrong about all that” post. All of which is to say I understand the business reasons why they did it, but to me it compro…

I almost never write server-side JS/TS so I don't have a horse in this race, but it sounds like a good time and reason for a community fork that eschews legacy compatibility in order to focus on only modern features.

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#123

Post by afavour »

bityard wrote: post #122
afavour wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could it be that they added node compatibility because people wanted node compatibility I imagine that’s exactly the reason! But they outlined their reasoning for a clean break pretty well in their 1.0 announcement post[1] and they haven’t, to my knowledge, posted a follow up “here’s why we were wrong about all that” post. All of which is to say I understand the business reasons why they did it, but to me it compro…

I almost never write server-side JS/TS so I don't have a horse in this race, but it sounds like a good time and reason for a community fork that eschews legacy compatibility in order to focus on only modern features.

Announcing Oden...

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#124

Post by koakuma-chan »

diggan wrote: post #119
koakuma-chan wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Vibe coding" as a concept is a fun joke, not a workflow you employ for doing serious engineering. Well I guess making Next.js apps isn't really "serious engineering" > Read the code yourself, otherwise it'll be really hard to call yourself any sort of engineer. I do read the code but I barely write any code by hand.

> Well I guess making Next.js apps isn't really "serious engineering" Where did I say that? > I do read the code but I barely write any code by hand. Right, so you use the words "vibe coding" yet you don't actually understand the concept? A lot of things make sense now. The description "vibe coding" is explicitly about "programming" with a LLM without reading or writing any code at all , for any purpose. If you read…

> Where did I say that?

You replied to a comment that says "Yep, Next.js has the best support for vibe coding."

> Right, so you use the words "vibe coding" yet you don't actually understand the concept? A lot of things make sense now.

You can stop arguing that if one glances at the code one is no longer vibe coding, because in practice by looking at the code or even the LLM's thoughts you can catch things you don't want early.

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#125

Post by thunderbong »

ffsm8 wrote: post #118

Mark Twain was born in 1835, made the quote in 97 and died in 10. So the quote was done around 60 yrs old. And he perished roughly 1/4 of the of the time later. Demo was released in 2018, it has now quoted the statement, 7 yrs later. I guess the next 2 years are gonna be interesting?

Is this a pattern seen elsewhere?

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#126

Post by the_gipsy »

skybrian wrote: post #88
the_gipsy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They basically said they were taking a risk (node/npm incompatible) for a big long-term benefit. They gave up on that forever, for some short-term growth. How many more times would they back-pedal on any risk they announced taking?

They did say something like that, but I don’t remember what the big long-term benefit was supposed to be. What specifically did they give up? Maybe it wasn’t that important after all.

They gave up on a quality Deno ecosystem. And being relevant.

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#127

Post by teucris »

I’m seeing some debate on Deno’s decision to ensure Node compatibility, apparently as it gives up a core value prop of early Deno to try and hit the reset button.

Can someone help me understand what was lost here? Is there no longer a way to use Deno without using the Node ecosystem?

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#128

Post by pier25 »

dbushell wrote: post #10

Doesn't inspire confidence. I guess we’ll see soon enough what Deploy will become since that's "imminent". KV is dead if they've no desire to develop it out of beta and are working on something new. No reason to ever use it for a new project now. Fresh is being refactored with an alpha in "late Q3 2025 (likely September)". It was a fairly basic framework to being with. The no compilation/build step was the only inter…

> KV is dead

Yeah this is a terrible move. Companies aren't relying on KV precisely because it's in beta not because it was a bad idea. I use Cloudflare Workers KV a lot and I'm not interested in durable objects. I was really interested in Deno KV until now.

Plus the optics of announcing a product and abandoning it are not good. Ryan is a great technical guy but these decisions don't look good from a strategic perspective.

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#129

Post by zem »

afavour wrote: post #123
bityard wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I almost never write server-side JS/TS so I don't have a horse in this race, but it sounds like a good time and reason for a community fork that eschews legacy compatibility in order to focus on only modern features.

Announcing Oden...

when it hits 1.0 they can feature freeze and call it "done"

Re: Reports of Deno's Demise Have Been Greatly Exaggerated

#130

Post by CuriouslyC »

bredren wrote: post #69
CuriouslyC wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bun has high node compatibility with lightning fast testing and a good/fast built in package manger. I'd use bun for local dev even I was deploying with node.

Why not esbuild? It was ~fast enough first and free of capital entanglements.

Bun is still faster, and Bun's testing is insanely fast -- I had a test suite that would take 30 seconds with Jest that finished in 800ms with bun. Plus Bun's networking performance is insane compared to Node, and you can have a lot more concurrent clients in a light vpc (think 1gb).
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