FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices • Hacker News Board

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#191

Post by HelloMcFly » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:43 PM UTC

tokioyoyo wrote: post #137

crazygringo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, it doesn't. IP geolocation is nowhere near precise enough. Remember, sales tax isn't something big like state-level. It's literally town -level, including tiny towns. Two sides of the same street can have a different sales tax. Not to mention all the extra rules, such as individual clothing items under $110 being exempt in New York.

It somehow works almost anywhere outside of NA? It's really not a crazy concept - estimate it based on geolocation and say "more exact will be available once you enter your address". The problem is, that genuinely negatively affect the sales because people see the true price of things.

> estimate it based on geolocation and say "more exact will be available once you enter your address".

I appreciate this can be done and countries in Europe do it, I just don't see how this is any better at all than status quo:

* Current State: we all know the quoted price doesn't include sales tax, which will be added to make the final price in checkout after we enter our address.

* Final State: we all know the quoted price will likely change during checkout, when we see the final price after we enter our address.

So we make things more complicated for vendors, and we make it not just acceptable but required that vendors use our IP addresses for geolocation, only to give us a maybe-right-maybe-wrong final price. Does anyone feel scammed by not having tax included on the price in the listings of Macy's online store?

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#192

Post by ghaff » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:43 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #108

ghaff wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do. On the other hand, I'm typically exempt from a lot of the airline add-ons for various reasons. Airlines are probably not the best example. A lot of people probably want cheaper airfares even if it means less/poorer service in a lot of ways. But it should be as transparent up-front as possible. Even if infrequent travelers may not always understand the details.

I think airlines are a great example because the fees are often actually paying for something materially different. When purchasing concert tickets recently I got a "mobile convenience fee" for an e-ticket even though the venue doesn't operate a physical box office. A recent hotel had a "resort fee" that was not opt-out even if you didn't use the amenities it allegedly paid for. These kinds of BS fees should go away.

Non-opt-out resort fees and facility fees and the like are especially annoying. They're also (presumably deliberately) a small enough portion of the total amount that they're not really worth getting into a big lather about.

I think we're agreeing. While a lot of airline fees are nickel-and-diming, they're also over and above transporting people from A to B, in many cases for as little money as they want to spend as possible.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#193

Post by coldpie » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:44 PM UTC

physhster wrote: post #125

coldpie wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minnesota banned these this year! It goes into effect Jan 1st. https://minnesotareformer.com/2024/05/20/governor-signs-junk...

Imagine if that guy became VP...

We have a very nice little island of sanity up here :)

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#194

Post by coderjames » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:44 PM UTC

Do restaurant service fees next! "Here's the bill, with a 10% service fee added so we can pay our staff more without raising menu prices."

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#195

Post by dchichkov » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:44 PM UTC

Liquix wrote: post #177

dchichkov wrote: post #82

I wish that "Online Coupon Price Tags" in stores would also be banned. I'm talking about these yellow price tags that show lower than "Club" prices, which are only valid if you collect a coupon online. Like FTC, I estimate that banning these would save U.S. consumers millions of hours they currently spend searching and clicking on pointless coupons on their phones before making purchases. It would also increase happi…

those tags are working as intended - some people don't read the "online only" part, grab the item, assume the discount is applied at checkout, and end up paying full price. other people will download (and probably never uninstall) the spyware app and start feeding a juicy profitable data stream back to HQ. because how are you ever going to stay in business doing something as niche as selling groceries without leaning…

Whoever invented this is evil and is destroying happiness.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#196

Post by ssl-3 » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:46 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #94

crazygringo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about sales taxes, they can't until you input your shipping address. Because they depend on where you live. Nobody's trying to fool you by not including sales taxes. There's just no way to show them in advance, unless you want to start typing your address and zip code into every shopping website before you even browse.

In the EU, the site guesses the location based on the IP, writes "Delivery to Denmark [Change?]" and shows prices with Danish VAT. If I'm signed in to the shop from making a previous purchase, they will use the location of the previous purchase.

If Denmark has just one sales tax rate or VAT, then maybe that can work OK for Denmark.

But this isn't about Denmark -- it is about the US.

In the US, there are over 13,000 different sales tax jurisdictions, and each one of them may have a different tax rate.

I wish the best to anyone who would ever be tasked with sorting that out with any semblance of accuracy using IP geolocation databases.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#197

Post by Centigonal » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:47 PM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #182

breadwinner wrote: post #140

This shouldn't be controversial. FTC isn't banning these fees, it is only requiring merchants to disclose the fees. Why would anyone be against that? Another good rule is click-to-cancel. Just a couple of days ago I logged into my Dish Network account to cancel it (after they hiked prices). There is no way to cancel online. There is no way to cancel via chat. You have to call. As soon as you call you're told the wait…

Of course it's controversial. They do this to increase profits. A certain portion of the population is pro-profit at virtually any cost. It might seem like Dish employees wake up every day and say, "What can we do today to screw our customers even more?" But usually they're just trying to find ways to make more money.

Dish knows their satellite TV business is on the way out. Their strategy is to maximize the present value of that business by retaining and squeezing as many of those customers as much as possible, slowing the decline and pulling as much money out of that vertical for as long as they still have it, so that they can reinvest that cash into new verticals with more promise.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#198

Post by thenickdude » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:49 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #42

guidedlight wrote: post #10

They should ban hidden taxes too. The sticker price should be the final price.

I remember shopping in Japan. The price on the tag, is exactly what you pay (same with services, like hotels). Since this is Japan, it's a high price, but no surprises. Also, the service is amazing , and they won't accept tips. If you leave money on the table, they will chase after you, to give it back.

Except 100 yen stores which are actually 110 yen stores.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#199

Post by __MatrixMan__ » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:49 PM UTC

breadwinner wrote: post #140

This shouldn't be controversial. FTC isn't banning these fees, it is only requiring merchants to disclose the fees. Why would anyone be against that? Another good rule is click-to-cancel. Just a couple of days ago I logged into my Dish Network account to cancel it (after they hiked prices). There is no way to cancel online. There is no way to cancel via chat. You have to call. As soon as you call you're told the wait…

I'm told you can just write the account number to cancel on a brick and throw it through their window. Might be worth a try.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#200

Post by websap » Tue, Dec 17, 2024, 10:50 PM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #148

websap wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will take the blurb which says taxes are an approximate calculation based on web browsing data available, vs, no taxes shown. We're gate keeping good features for large % of users over some edge cases.

So currently they correctly advertise the pre-tax price but since that’s not the correct total price your proposal is to display an approximate price which is also not the correct total price. I don’t see how this reduces ambiguity.

A higher price is more accurate than the pretax price