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I got almost all of my wishes granted with RP2350

dmitry.gr

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Re: I got almost all of my wishes granted with RP2350

#191

Post by GeorgeTirebiter »

synergy20 wrote: post #19

You can pick either ARM cores or RISC-V cores on the same die? Never saw design like this before. Will this impact price and power consumption? "The Hazard3 cores are optional: Users can at boot time select a pair of included Arm Cortex-M33 cores to run, or the pair of Hazard3 cores. Both options run at 150 MHz. The more bold could try running one RV and one Arm core together rather than two RV or two Arm. Hazard3 is…

Hazard3 pointer https://github.com/Wren6991/Hazard3

I think it's cool as a cucumber that we can choose fully open-source RISC-V if we want. My guess is the RV cores are slower clock-per-clock than the M33 cores; that is benchmark scores for M33's will be better, as Hazard3 is only 3-stage pipeline - but so is M33. Can't wait for the benchmarks.

Re: I got almost all of my wishes granted with RP2350

#192

Post by colejohnson66 »

v1ne wrote: post #134

Hmm, it's really nice that they fixed so many complaints. But honestly, reading the errata sheet, I had to chuckle that Dmitry didn't tear this chip to pieces. I mean, there's erratums about obscure edge cases, about miniscule bugs. Sure, mistakes happen. And then there's this: Internal pull-downs don't work reliably. Workaround: Disconnect digital input and only connect while you're reading the value. Well, great! N…

You can also use external resistors.

Re: I got almost all of my wishes granted with RP2350

#193

Post by str3wer »

janice1999 wrote: post #100
nimish wrote: post #78

Gross, the dev board uses micro-USB. It's 2024! Otherwise amazing work. Exactly what's needed to compete with the existing giants.

It saves cost and none of the features of USB-C (speed, power delivery etc) are supported. Makes sense.

the price difference from usb to usb-c is less than 2 cents

Re: I got almost all of my wishes granted with RP2350

#194

Post by kaycebasques »

bobsomers wrote: post #187
kaycebasques wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We realize Bazel is not the right build system for every embedded project. The "Bazel for Embedded" post that came out today (we co-authored it) talks more about why we find Bazel so compelling: https://blog.bazel.build/2024/08/08/bazel-for-embedded.html

In my experience, Bazel is great if you are a Google-sized company that can afford to have an entire team of at least 5-10 engineers doing nothing but working on your build system full time. But I've watched it be insanely detrimental to the productivity of smaller companies and teams who don't understand the mountain of incidental complexity they're signing up for when adopting it. It's usually because a startup hir…

Thanks for the discussion. What was the timeframe of your work in these Bazel codebases (or maybe it's ongoing)? And were they embedded systems or something else?

Re: I got almost all of my wishes granted with RP2350

#195

Post by kaycebasques »

jaeckel wrote: post #145
dheera wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate Bazel. A build system for C/C++ should not require a Java JVM. Please keep Java out of microcontroller ecosystem please -__--

And only discord on top, but maybe I'm simply not hip enough

I forwarded your feedback to the team and we are now vigorously debating which other comms channels we can all live with

Re: I got almost all of my wishes granted with RP2350

#196

Post by rscott2049 »

rowanG077 wrote: post #77

Would the pio now support sane Ethernet using rmii for example?

I'm assuming you've looked at the pico-rmii-ethernet library? If so, I feel your pain - I've been fixing issues, and am about halfway done. (This is for the DECstation2040 project, available on github). Look for a release in late aug/early sep. (Maybe with actual lance code? Dmitry??) The RP2350 will make RMII slightly easier - the endless DMA allows elimination of the DMA reload channel(s).

Re: I got almost all of my wishes granted with RP2350

#197

Post by snvzz »

phire wrote: post #184
MBCook wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun for benchmarking too. You’re limited to those two exact kinds of cores, but you know every other thing on the entire computer is 100% identical. It’s not SBC 1 vs SBC 2, but they have different RAM chips and this one has a better cooler but that one better WiFi.

I really hope people don't do this. Or at least not try to sell it as ARM vs RISC-V tests. Because what you are really testing is the Cortex-M33 vs the Hazard 3, and they aren't equivalent. They might both be 3 stage in-order RISC pipelines, but Cortex-M33 is technically superscalar, as it can dual-issue two 16bit instructions in certain situations. Also, the Cortex-M33 has a faster divider, 11 cycles with early term…

It'd help to know how much area each core takes within the die.

I would expect the ARM cores to be much larger, as well as use much more power.

Re: I got almost all of my wishes granted with RP2350

#199

Post by refulgentis »

str3wer wrote: post #193
janice1999 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It saves cost and none of the features of USB-C (speed, power delivery etc) are supported. Makes sense.

the price difference from usb to usb-c is less than 2 cents

You would be surprised at the amount of effort and success $0.01 represents at BigCo. Even when projected sales are in 6 figure range.

Re: I got almost all of my wishes granted with RP2350

#200

Post by robomartin »

ebenupton wrote: post #163
robomartin wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my work, the lack of flash memory integration on the 2040 is a deal breaker. You cannot secure your code. Not sure that has changed with the new device.

It has: you can encrypt your code, store a decryption key in OTP, and decrypt into RAM. Or if your code is small and unchanging enough, store it directly in OTP.

Nice! Thanks for the direct communication BTW.

I guess you are very serious about competing with industrial MCU’s.

We had to use a 2040 shortly after it came out because it was impossible to get STM32’s. Our customer accepted the compromise provided we replaced all the boards (nearly 1000) with STM32 boards as soon as the supply chain normalized.

I hope to also learn that you now have proper support for development under Windows. Back then your support engineers were somewhat hostile towards Windows-based development (just learn Linux, etc.). The problem I don’t think they understood was that it wasn’t a case of not knowing Linux (using Unix before Linux existed). A product isn’t just the code inside a small embedded MCU. The other elements that comprise the full product design are just as important, if not more. Because of this and other reasons, it can make sense to unify development under a single platform. I can’t store and maintain VM’s for 10 years because one of the 200 chips in the design does not have good support for Windows, where all the other tools live.

Anyhow, I explained this to your engineers a few years ago. Not sure they understood.

I have a project that I could fit these new chips into, so long as we don’t have to turn our workflow upside down to do it.

Thanks again.

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