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French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

torrentfreak.com

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Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#191

Post by callalex »

charlieyu1 wrote: post #158
jsnell wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did fight it in court. They lost. I'm surprised you're so keen on having big tech companies intentionally ignore court orders and just break the law. Like, it's obviously something none of us should want.

Is a non-French company obligated to obey a French court order? I can probably name a few countries where most US companies won't enforce the court order from them

They have paying customers in France/they operate their business in France for a profit. Just because their headquarters aren’t there doesn’t make it a non-French related business.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#192

Post by callalex »

Copenjin wrote: post #143
thejazzman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're the most respected / most surprising?

Respected by who?

Respect might not be the right word, but during their meteoric rise to popularity in the past decade they have consistently shouted “we don’t moderate content, we’re just a dumb pipe, don’t take this up with us take it up with the publisher!”

In the past 3 years or so they have repeatedly proven that to be a lie; they weren’t able to have their cake and eat it too. But their old reputation still sticks around amongst people who don’t follow the space that closely.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#193

Post by callalex »

tialaramex wrote: post #16

One of the interesting technical questions is how these vendors will choose to reflect the forbidden DNS entries in protocols like DoH where they have a choice. For example a reasonable thing for a DoH server to say when asked a DNS question it has been forbidden to answer truthfully, is HTTP 451 Unavailable for Legal Reasons.

That would be a layer/protocol violation. The HTTP status codes used in DoH are used to discuss the semantics of the DNS query itself, unrelated to the DNS response. For example an NXDOMAIN response is still a 200, not a 404.

Edit: for what it’s worth, Google is doing this the “right” way in the DNS protocol itself, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40698650

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#194

Post by eddd-ddde »

leloctai wrote: post #39
lm411 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just footybite.cc will become footybite1.cc, then footybite2.cc... so on. The people writing these laws are seemingly clueless about the internet. Or perhaps, the lawyers just don't care as they are getting paid.

How will users find the new domains? If they can reliability do so then dns is not needed in the first place. If not, then the laws are effective.

Google and friends (literally, your friends will tell you).

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#195

Post by gruez »

wdb wrote: post #185
gruez wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Childishness aside, this is a dumb idea because it's going to piss off more users than appease. Most don't care about the struggle for internet freedom or whatever, and just want their sites to work. For them blocking legitimate sites a sign that their ISP is broken, especially when their friends/colleges report that it's working fine on their connections. Moreover blocking illegal streaming sites is court sanctioned…

You could just redirect it to the page they need to show for the bad sites :)

I'm not sure how that's any less childish/tortious interference. At the end of the day you're still unilaterally deciding to interfere with some company's website.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#196

Post by gruez »

immibis wrote: post #189
gruez wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* Domestic abuse is the victim's fault because they shouldn't have made their partner angry. * The Chinese GFW is the fault of the people who criticized the government. They shouldn't criticize the government. * Israel indiscriminately bombing Gaza is the fault of the Gazans who fought back the last time Israel did that. * The Holocaust is the Jews' fault for not fleeing the country sooner. Except in all those cases…

Doesn't matter. Even if you have no right to be annoying, being annoying doesn't justify punching you in the face. Even if you have no right to kill 100 people, killing 100 people still doesn't justify killing 50000 people. Even if you have no right to watch sportsball, watching sportsball doesn't justify shutting down the Internet.

>Even if you have no right to be annoying, being annoying doesn't justify punching you in the face.

Being "annoying" however does justify you being escorted off the premises, which is probably closer to what's happening to those streaming sites than being "punched in the face".

>Even if you have no right to watch sportsball, watching sportsball doesn't justify shutting down the Internet.

Get a grip. Returning incorrect IPs for several known illegal stream websites is hardly "shutting down the Internet", any more than arresting a bunch of belligerent protesters is enacting a police state.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#197

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #61
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #48

I’ve always been curious why dns is a go-to for oppressing unwanted websites. Is it truly difficult to block at an IP level? There would be collateral damage in doing so, but it wouldn’t take long for most VPS providers to dump piracy sites if the alternate is their entire network block being dropped.

You've identified exactly the problem. They'd be blocking thousands of unrelated innocent websites. Also, changing your IP address is really easy.

That’s something cloudflare doesn’t want either. They wouldn’t even need to do it, just threatening to would have a financial impact on cf.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#198

Post by seec »

didntcheck wrote: post #142
mdhb wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple have repeatedly thrown their customers under the bus especially in China. At least Google had the courage to withdraw entirely.

This is why I can never take their current alleged passion for privacy fully seriously. Sure, I do appreciate some of the features they're coming out with, but I don't trust them to not eventually drop this marketing angle and pull rugs when it's no longer profitable

Considering that it is run by a duplicitous Uncle Scrooge it is exactly what is going to happen. If the App Store golden goose get taken over (by DMA and similar legislation) they will lose a significant share of their revenue growth and it seems that this is simply unacceptable to current Apple leadership.

The iPhone is losing its luster and competitors are coming with extremely competitive devices at much cheaper prices, even at the most premium end there is not much of an edge, the product has been perfectly commoditized. Pursuing luxury will inexorably make it a smaller and smaller share of the market every year passing. The iPad and the Mac are pretty small share of the revenue too, by pursuing luxury Apple has put itself into the same corner, repeating previous mistake Steve Jobs warned against in an interview (while working at Next).

I don't see how they reconciliate their need for growth without fucking over their users at some point on the privacy bullshit. It's not as if they don't have a long history of doing that. There is one thing that is clear about Apple as a company: it loves money much more than its customers; in a way that makes regular companies look like boy scouts...

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#199

Post by SR2Z »

thenthenthen wrote: post #80
mdhb wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple have repeatedly thrown their customers under the bus especially in China. At least Google had the courage to withdraw entirely.

Google never left China, they literally just moved to a new building on the other side of the road (in Zhongguancun, Beijing). They even “left a couple of boxes there”[1]. [1] Blum, Andrew, Tubes: A Journey to the Center of the Internet. New York, Ecco, 2012. https://archive.org/details/unset0000unse_p9b6

Google in China is virtually a different company than the US - laptops and desktops issued by Google in the US will automatically erase their disks if they detect they're in one of a few countries (Iran, China, Russia, NK, etc.) and there is an entirely separate flow for workers there since GMail and the corporate intranet are inaccessible.

Re: French court orders Google, Cloudflare, Cisco to poison DNS to stop piracy

#200

Post by aniviacat »

immibis wrote: post #166
aniviacat wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This claim appears blatantly false. If being unpopular makes a law more likely to pass, then surely the French government tars and feathers all French children every other week. No, they don't, since the voters would prevent that by voting for a different government.

That law was never proposed. Only laws that are beneficial to the ruling class get proposed.

The voters decide who is part of the "ruling class". If the voters choose representatives who only pass laws which benefit themselves, then that is a choice the voters made. If the voters are unsatisfied with their choice, they can change their mind in the next vote.

(Read: The status quo is the status quo because most people are prefer the status quo.)

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