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Introducing Copilot+ PCs

blogs.microsoft.com

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Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#191

Post by brazzledazzle »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #178
isoprophlex wrote: post #124

Their "copilot" brand is so weird and... muddled. There's the AI code assistant thing that github actually started, there's the horrible chatbot maker GUI demoware, there's AI stuff you might be able to do with your sharepoint (if only you could get hold of the right ms sales rep to take your money), there's an app that does genai things on your personal MS account... And now there's a Surface rebrand? That org chart…

> Their "copilot" brand is so weird and... muddled. Microsoft can't brand anything cleanly and unambiguously. "MSN Messenger" / "Windows Messenger" / "Windows Live Messenger" / "Microsoft Lync" "Internet Explorer" / "Windows Explorer" / "MSN Explorer" Windows 95 email client "Exchange" / email server platform "Exchange" "Outlook" / "Outlook Web Access" / "Outlook Web App" / "Outlook.com" / "new Outlook for Windows" "…

Let's not forget Azure AD is now Microsoft Entra.

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#192

Post by TiredOfLife »

jsheard wrote: post #42
dingle_thunk wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has been consistently trying to give ARM a try since the surface RT. Consumers are not going to bite. marginal power saving is not meaningful.

The first iteration of Windows ARM didn't have any x86 emulation layer, so that one was doomed from the start. The second iteration did, but it initially couldn't run 64bit apps and the performance was poor. They do have 64bit support now and it sounds like the emulation performance has come a long way.

Also this time the cpu is actually fast. The previous ones were netbook slow.

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#193

Post by jsheard »

nerdjon wrote: post #181
Dalewyn wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon. The vast majority of gamers game on smartphones and tablets with ARM processors. Some of the biggest gaming hits recently have also been cross-architecture and cross-platform, namely Genshin Impact and Honkai: Star Rail . Native ARM and x86 releases, runs on Windows, Android, and iOS. There a…

> The vast majority of gamers game on smartphones and tablets with ARM processors. Those are clearly not the gamers I am talking about. The gamers I am referring too are not switching to playing on mobile phones. If they are switching to handheld devices they are going with x86 devices like the Steam Deck. There is a massive market out there of games that do not support those platforms. That are only just now scratch…

> Which unless I am mistaken the only one of those in the top list that actually runs on mobile is PUBG.

Even in that case it's "kind of but not really". PUBG Mobile is a distinct game from regular PUBG, they have similar core gameplay but they are developed independently of each other.

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#194

Post by EvanAnderson »

brazzledazzle wrote: post #191
EvanAnderson wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their "copilot" brand is so weird and... muddled. Microsoft can't brand anything cleanly and unambiguously. "MSN Messenger" / "Windows Messenger" / "Windows Live Messenger" / "Microsoft Lync" "Internet Explorer" / "Windows Explorer" / "MSN Explorer" Windows 95 email client "Exchange" / email server platform "Exchange" "Outlook" / "Outlook Web Access" / "Outlook Web App" / "Outlook.com" / "new Outlook for Windows" "…

Let's not forget Azure AD is now Microsoft Entra.

"Office 365" / "Microsoft 365", too... >sigh<

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#195

Post by nerdjon »

jsheard wrote: post #193
nerdjon wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast majority of gamers game on smartphones and tablets with ARM processors. Those are clearly not the gamers I am talking about. The gamers I am referring too are not switching to playing on mobile phones. If they are switching to handheld devices they are going with x86 devices like the Steam Deck. There is a massive market out there of games that do not support those platforms. That are only just now scratch…

> Which unless I am mistaken the only one of those in the top list that actually runs on mobile is PUBG. Even in that case it's "kind of but not really". PUBG Mobile is a distinct game from regular PUBG, they have similar core gameplay but they are developed independently of each other.

Good to know, thank you. I figured they went the Fortnite route and it was the same game.

But I don't play PUBG, so my main point stands. None of the top steam games support ARM.

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#196

Post by aragonite »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #178
isoprophlex wrote: post #124

Their "copilot" brand is so weird and... muddled. There's the AI code assistant thing that github actually started, there's the horrible chatbot maker GUI demoware, there's AI stuff you might be able to do with your sharepoint (if only you could get hold of the right ms sales rep to take your money), there's an app that does genai things on your personal MS account... And now there's a Surface rebrand? That org chart…

> Their "copilot" brand is so weird and... muddled. Microsoft can't brand anything cleanly and unambiguously. "MSN Messenger" / "Windows Messenger" / "Windows Live Messenger" / "Microsoft Lync" "Internet Explorer" / "Windows Explorer" / "MSN Explorer" Windows 95 email client "Exchange" / email server platform "Exchange" "Outlook" / "Outlook Web Access" / "Outlook Web App" / "Outlook.com" / "new Outlook for Windows" "…

From Wikipedia: [1]

> Universal Windows Platform (UWP) apps (formerly Windows Store apps, Metro-style apps and Modern apps)...

Ironically, that list misses another former name, "Windows App" (different from the "Windows App" you guffawed at). That name was used around 2017 and used extensively in the 7th edition of Windows Internals.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Windows_Platform_a...

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#197

Post by jsheard »

nerdjon wrote: post #195
jsheard wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which unless I am mistaken the only one of those in the top list that actually runs on mobile is PUBG. Even in that case it's "kind of but not really". PUBG Mobile is a distinct game from regular PUBG, they have similar core gameplay but they are developed independently of each other.

Good to know, thank you. I figured they went the Fortnite route and it was the same game. But I don't play PUBG, so my main point stands. None of the top steam games support ARM.

Fortnite is the outlier there, being the exact same game across every platform. COD Mobile and Apex Mobile are/were also officially sanctioned clones of the original game, similar to PUBG Mobile.

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#198

Post by sys_64738 »

nerdjon wrote: post #73
jsheard wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first iteration of Windows ARM didn't have any x86 emulation layer, so that one was doomed from the start. The second iteration did, but it initially couldn't run 64bit apps and the performance was poor. They do have 64bit support now and it sounds like the emulation performance has come a long way.

Here is my question though, comparing how this works on Mac. Will Windows have the opposite? ARM running on x86? I continue to wonder how Microsoft expects to work long term. Are they expecting that every developer is just going to keep x86 and ARM based app perpetually or users be stuck always using that emulation layer if they are running ARM? Microsoft won't be able to 100% transition to ARM like Mac did. At some…

> I just don't see many developers bothering with an ARM native Windows version when doing so means they have to support both or risk annoying customers later.

The market dictates what developers do. If Windows on ARM is the new shiny and it hits the three key laptop parameters of no fan noise, long battery life, cool case, then people will buy it and developers will build for it.

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#199

Post by dark__paladin »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #178
isoprophlex wrote: post #124

Their "copilot" brand is so weird and... muddled. There's the AI code assistant thing that github actually started, there's the horrible chatbot maker GUI demoware, there's AI stuff you might be able to do with your sharepoint (if only you could get hold of the right ms sales rep to take your money), there's an app that does genai things on your personal MS account... And now there's a Surface rebrand? That org chart…

> Their "copilot" brand is so weird and... muddled. Microsoft can't brand anything cleanly and unambiguously. "MSN Messenger" / "Windows Messenger" / "Windows Live Messenger" / "Microsoft Lync" "Internet Explorer" / "Windows Explorer" / "MSN Explorer" Windows 95 email client "Exchange" / email server platform "Exchange" "Outlook" / "Outlook Web Access" / "Outlook Web App" / "Outlook.com" / "new Outlook for Windows" "…

To add to this, I have always found the Xbox naming conventions to be confusing, personally. "Xbox One" is the third one, not the original "Xbox" and the two newest models are named almost identically; "Xbox Series X" vs "Xbox Series S".

Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs

#200

Post by dweinus »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #163
isoprophlex wrote: post #124

Their "copilot" brand is so weird and... muddled. There's the AI code assistant thing that github actually started, there's the horrible chatbot maker GUI demoware, there's AI stuff you might be able to do with your sharepoint (if only you could get hold of the right ms sales rep to take your money), there's an app that does genai things on your personal MS account... And now there's a Surface rebrand? That org chart…

The original [4]: https://goomics.net/62/ (and its sequel: https://goomics.net/329/ ).

100% accurate. Impressive
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