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Is the Job Market Dying?

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Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#191

Post by eru »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #179
ghaff wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be somewhat cynical, they're big companies. Big companies have lots of process, layers of management, fiefdoms, etc. etc. Doesn't matter if you're Google, Facebook, or a big bank.

size matters, but publicly traded matters more. like sometimes that bureaucracy is a good thing. i remember an uncle who worked for EMC talking to me about being a big company vs. small company person; each has an advantage.

> size matters, but publicly traded matters more.

Google has been publicly traded for most of its life, but things have changed over time regardless of that constant.

> like sometimes that bureaucracy is a good thing.

Employed right bureaucracy is one way to scale up processes.

Eg compare (1) keeping the whole state of your project in your head, or (2) in a personal notebook, or (3) on a share whiteboard with post it notes, (4) in Jira tickets.

Depending on the size of your project and organisation, you will find that the increased overhead of the higher-numbered methods might be worth it.

Of course, not all bureaucracy is the same. When I was at Google around 2014-2016 I found that they consistently achieved more benefits results from their bureaucracy at lower overheads than the big banks I used to work at (which weren't actually any bigger than Google).

Bureaucracy gets a bad rep but when done right (and defined broadly enough), it can help a lot.

Another example of bureaucracy done right is distributed version control: it's so convenient (after you get used to it..) that many people even use git on single person projects.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#192

Post by eru »

ghaff wrote: post #189
ianbicking wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers are all made arbitrary/simple just to check if the general property is true: even if there's no change in the market, if you sample job seekers you will find more people who feel the job search is harder because a hard job search means you are on the market longer and more likely to be surveyed.

Yes, but a market where it takes a month longer vs. a year longer probably implies different behaviors.

So my original comment was to the effect that the average job seeker you can interview will always skew towards being that guy who's taking a year to find a job.

But 'that guy' will change: many more people will be 'that guy' during a downturn, than during a boom.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#193

Post by eru »

ghaff wrote: post #180
red-iron-pine wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

size matters, but publicly traded matters more. like sometimes that bureaucracy is a good thing. i remember an uncle who worked for EMC talking to me about being a big company vs. small company person; each has an advantage.

>size matters, but publicly traded matters more. It matters some but a very large private company still needs to organize and make money even if there's probably somewhat less immediacy. >big company vs. small company person; each has an advantage Yes. Small companies have limitations to what they can achieve even if they're impressive at small scale. And, certainly, software that doesn't involve enterprise sales all…

> It matters some but a very large private company still needs to organize and make money even if there's probably somewhat less immediacy.

For a company like Google, it's exactly the same. Even after going public, the founders still control the majority of stock voting rights. And there's no obligation in corporate law that you have to maximize profits.

It's just that you have a fiduciary duty to the shareholders; maximizing profits is one things shareholders can want, but it's not the only thing they are allowed to ask for.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#194

Post by zer00eyz »

mrmuagi wrote: post #137
zer00eyz wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a job and they are hiring. Two former colleagues come in. Bob: he comes in, he does his work, he goes home. He's a good productive developer. Jane: She comes in, does her work, it's always documented and well tested. She is happy to roll up her sleeves and help the people around her out. She will pause to help you even if it means she gonna finish up at home. Your boss asks you: Your call who do we hire.…

Where do you draw the line in not being exploitable though? Why wouldn't you hire someone who does all your work for you then it feels like the next question is. When there's a scarcity in job openinings compared to applicants, sure one of those might be chosen, but in a regular job market I feel like both should get hired.

>> Why wouldn't you hire someone who does all your work for you then it feels like the next question is.

Yes, this is why people start their own companies, and cash out.

>> Where do you draw the line in not being exploitable though?

Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, that's why I shit on company time... as the old adage goes.

The reality is that giving you a job only works if the company makes money off of what you do. If it lost money or broke even that would not be worth it. You're always being "exploited".

If you want to feel equal, there are plenty of companies that are collectives (mondragon look it up). I have a few projects going on right now that are structured like this. If one of them "takes off" it's a very even distribution for all involved as long as they are working there.

The beauty of capitalism is that if you hate how companies are run you can and should go run your own with the rules you want. If it was very equal, then everyone is incentives to go above and beyond... your still not gonna hire bob!

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#195

Post by antisthenes »

axpy wrote: post #145
antisthenes wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But remember 1000hours a year is a lot to bet on your company or colleagues vouching for you and being in a position where that matters. Yeah, at 50/hr that's $50,000 for a chance of someone vouching for you in the future that may never come to pass. There's also the chance that maybe they were the manager that made you work 60hrs in the first place, so they don't see you as going above and beyond. Whoopsie, you ju…

You do you but don't complain if you end up having a harder time during economic downturn. Everything in life is about risk-reward and going the extra mile is about tipping the scale in your favor. To be fair, don't think op advocate for putting 60h every week. It's about being passionate about what you are doing and sometime just being available for your coworker outside of working hours can be enough. In my profess…

> You do you but don't complain if you end up having a harder time during economic downturn.

Everyone has it hard during an economic downturn. Ugly people also have it harder, so do shorter and dumber people.

I don't find this exercise of comparing myself to others helpful. Despite having good feedback for my work, it doesn't really grow my network.

> who I would be happy to recommend or hire on the spot.

Yeah, assuming you don't have any biases and are a perfect judge of who's doing a good job. That's omegacap as the young kids say.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#196

Post by shrimp_emoji »

jacknews wrote: post #175
ohdannyboy wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several hours definitely isn't required. If you are a good match for a job your resume should already be a stand out, so all you need to do is read the listing and submit your resume (plus whatever HR system hoops they make you jump through). Anecdotally, I typically get a high response rate when I'm choosey and have never wrote a cover letter or anything specific to the job in question. Why would I need to write a l…

"I for one wouldn't want an engineer who solves problems like that on the team. " I guess this is some high-handed attempt at a put-down. I think you have to consider what game job-hunting/filling is. IMHO it's essentially quite similar to mating. In that case, you see all kinds of strategies, tailored to the environment, and other realities. Have you thought about why you're getting all these applications that clear…

> Is it because people are stupid, or lazy? Or

Stop right there. Yes.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#197

Post by jacknews »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #196
jacknews wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I for one wouldn't want an engineer who solves problems like that on the team. " I guess this is some high-handed attempt at a put-down. I think you have to consider what game job-hunting/filling is. IMHO it's essentially quite similar to mating. In that case, you see all kinds of strategies, tailored to the environment, and other realities. Have you thought about why you're getting all these applications that clear…

> Is it because people are stupid, or lazy? Or Stop right there. Yes.

It's like that anecdote about a*holes

When everyone you meet is an a*hole, maybe you're the a*hole

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#198

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