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Please don't learn to code

codinghorror.com

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Re: Please don't learn to code

#191

Post by demian »

jkahn wrote: post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

Even "programmer" is, in my opinion, too broad of a term. And the difference between "coder" and "programmer" is not really that clear.

Every time a good term, besides "coder" and "programmer", appears, it gets overused by the wrong people and losts it's power. I strongly believe that what Jeff is describing could be called an "Information Systems Designer", but the term "Information Systems" has such a baggage of bullshit consulting that it can't be used.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#192

Post by happimess »

primecommenter wrote: post #42
jkahn wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I said programmer, I meant a professional programmer - as an occupation.

As opposed to a professional "coder"? (I also see "programmer" as a more distinguished title and I prefer it to "coder" (and even "software engineer"), but I don't understand any of these terms to have any generally-accepted definition; personally it is only a matter of taste.)

Think of the difference between learning to cook and becoming a cook, or learning to golf and becoming a golfer.

One refers to picking up some skills for any of a variety of reasons. The other refers to embarking on a career.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#193

Post by LostInTheWoods2 »

derekp7 wrote: post #156
LostInTheWoods2 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see ... so we're watering down the profession to the point where it is all inclusive. Can I start calling myself a doctor the next time I administer first aid?

To turn your statement around, are you saying that no one should bother learning first aid unless they are planning on becoming a medical professional?

I am trying to say there is a distinction between those who are trained professionals and those who have basic knowledge. I am getting the feeling people are taking this issue personally. If you want to become a trained professional, please do so. As for me, I have paid my dues and consider myself one.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#195

Post by mithaler »

jkahn wrote: post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

A good friend of mine recently tweeted[0]: "Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it; those who do not study mathematics or programming are doomed to repeat themselves."

[0]: https://twitter.com/#!/Sniffnoy/status/201187266197065729

Re: Please don't learn to code

#197

Post by jfb »

patdennis wrote: post #161
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are right there are probably a hundred people on here able to provide a working MVP alongside you and do it faster, cleaner and pick up on solutions you cant possibly know yet. Be a domain expert. But learn to code anyway :-)

I'm sure anyone here could do that. But how many people here are looking for a non technical co-founder? Coders are solving their own problems, and until I can hack together a prototype I don't think I'll be able to draw any attention from real programmers.

Regardless of one's feelings w/r/t the Atwood OP, it's hard to argue that programmers often conflate programming with solving problems. They are distinct concepts.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#198

Post by wes-exp »

rozap wrote: post #188
mindstab wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most people don't know what programming even looks like My mom recently (2012) just asked me if when I'm programming, the screen is full of symbols, kind of like the matrix. Many people I know consider computers "illogical". We could do a lot to help people understand how a computer works, and the best way is through programming.

And I convinced a friend of mine that in Python, we only code using the letter "s". Why do you think it's called Python, after all? She believed me.

To be fair, all programs sort of get reduced to 1s and 0s. Given this fact, I don't consider the idea of coding only with the letter 's' that much of a stretch. You know, in lisp I code with parentheses!

Re: Please don't learn to code

#199

Post by jisaacstone »

SatvikBeri wrote: post #126
jkahn wrote: post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

With a couple of months of programming knowledge, I wrote a program that saved my company $2MM/year. The key was combining knowledge of the business processes with some knowledge of programming. There were people with knowledge of one or the other, but not both. I still can't write a basic app, but that doesn't matter. I can do things that provide massive value, and I wouldn't be able to do them without programming k…

Exactly what I came here to say.

Let us not forget the difference between scripting and software. Shell scripts or bookmarklets or greasemonkey/browser plugins - These can be useful to the majority of workers.

Many have a specific problem that could be made much easier by coding but never will be address by professional coders.

Re: Please don't learn to code

#200

Post by slantyyz »

bengillies wrote: post #144
jkahn wrote: post #23

I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all. Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that…

> Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. If the benefit of everyone learning programming is logical/critical thinking, breaking a problem down and thinking of edge cases, etc, then why not focus on teaching everyone how to do that instead? A good way of doing that may very well be teaching s…

You could do that, but one of the best things with coding is that you get instant gratification and constant feedback.

"Hey look, my computer just said Hello to the world!"

The ability to play with scenarios while exercising your logical critical thinking and to get instant feedback is essential to learning.

I liken it to the difference between learning photography in the film days vs. digital. I bought an SLR in the late 80s but it was very expensive and time consuming to get good. I had to buy and use up a roll of film, take some notes about when, where and how I made the shot, then pay to get them developed. With digital, I see the shots I make instantly, and I can make mistakes and try again without incurring constant film and development costs.

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