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Do it virtually if safety is an issue. Just like with covid.
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I agree
An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
191–200 of 423 posts
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many places in Africa are sufficiently "developed" based on your definition? Should they postpone all Python conferences until they develop the rule of law? People from the countries that implemented progressive policies sometimes show unreasonable arrogance by expecting the whole world to change instantly according to the freedoms they're used to at home.
Or maybe accept that when you’re organising a global event, you need to be able to provide a safe space keeping in mind that you’re hosting guests that don’t necessarily embrace your “way of life”.
no conference organizer can provide a safe space from the law. the only really safe option is to not go there.
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
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kind of missing the point, when it's not explicitly about citizens, the entire argument breaks apart especially if you consider west bank residents as potential speakers.
> as inalienable or difficult to hide as [...] biological sex
in case you extrapolated from my comment: i'm me, but other people are other people, and "the cis" can, in fact, not always tell. not even usually.
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
>You know very well that coders are among the most reserved people on earth. Do not free/open source software activity or geek culture feel like more close to leftwing? p.s., this comment doesn't try to refute you.
It looks like that from outside but it really isn’t. Stallman fir example was very clear about free software having nothing to do with communism, but of course people take just what they want from facts and ignore what they don’t want/like. But, as i grow older, i realise itself not just software and it, it’s like that in most things.
I know free software is not communism, but leftwing do not represent communism, too. maybe I should not use the word "leftwing" here? like "A Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace", I always think geeks toward to change society with new technologies in past stories.
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
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kind of missing the point, when it's not explicitly about citizens, the entire argument breaks apart especially if you consider west bank residents as potential speakers. > as inalienable or difficult to hide as [...] biological sex in case you extrapolated from my comment: i'm me, but other people are other people, and "the cis" can, in fact, not always tell. not even usually.
I guess you can always consider anyone excluded if you try.
Iranian, North Korean and Cuban speakers, for example, would not be able to travel to America (or any US-allied country) as there are very explicit sanctions placed on those countries.
Unless you're claiming Palestine is part of Israel and thus Palestinian citizens are Israeli ones, which would be a very controversial statement indeed.
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#196Say what you want about the language's complexity but this wouldn't have happened if it was a C++ conference.
What point are you trying to make?
They were probably trying to allude to this[0] past controversy around C++ conferences (you can also google "c++ sex offender" and will find more sources around that).
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I was talking about international visitors actually. An LGBT resident of Zanzibar faces the same risks and oppressions whether they are at a Python conference or any other public place. So I don't see how that's relevant. What matters is (a) whether sponsoring would not further PSF's inclusivity goals because not all diverse types of people are welcome at the conference (b) whether the entire country morally deserves to be boycotted, like South Africa under apartheid.
Israeli airport security is racist and that's a fact. Being able to hide your religion is not always possible. PSF put religion, sexual orientation, national origin, and ethnicity on an equal footing in their consideration of diversity. https://www.python.org/community/diversity/
Yes, both Zanzibar and Israel are doing bad things and certain groups are affected. But these arguments only seem to come out when "people like us" are affected (LGBT, not Muslims) and when "people unlike us" are affecting (Africans, not Israelis. Not Floridians. Not...).
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power. If your policies put people at risk, limit to participation is a natural consequence. There is no conspiracy here. >I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here have no idea what LGBTQ means and those…
You are perfectly right that asking people to not care about the laws of a country is problematic. For personal safety and also as a moral stand point. But that should not be a reason to not fund conferences in those countries, conferences which are a way to learn, to discover new things. What do you think about conferences organizers, of every country, having to put on their website a little explanation of the laws…
There's a HUGE difference between:
"Our country taxes alcohol stupidly high, and nudity is 100% OK"
And
"Women are second class citizens and owned by their male counterparts. And we put gay people and trans people to death."
As much as I hate saying it, it doesn't matter who the individuals in a country are, and how tolerant they are. The laws by the ruling power are what you have to follow.
And fuck no going to a country based on Muslim Sharia. I know their book, and their brand of hate. Call it 'islamophobia', but I'd also be enslaved or executed if I stepped foot on their territories.
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#199Maybe it's my experience from working in grant driven academia, but applying for a grant 4 months before you need the money and then complaining because it took three short months to get a decision is ridiculous. Applying later than a year in advance is too late.
this was my first reaction. how fast they came to a consensus, it was the organizers fault for applying so late, it the boards fault for approving in only 3 months. 1 year prior to the con is more what I would expect.
Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Why should a conference be held somewhere where people will be excluded by virtue of their existence?
because that would limit conferences in a lot of places.
people everywhere should be able to hold their own conferences.
the question is, should the PSF fund them? that should be answerable with a clear yes or no in a timely manner, and not like it happened.
holding a conference named pycon requires permission from the PSF trademark workgroup. that permission has obviously been given. giving such a permission but then denying funding would be contradictory, but still be better than delaying decisions.
further consider that the people organizing the conference are not the ones making the exclusions. those are beyond their control. supporting the organizers might actually be a good thing. at least it is worth a consideration.