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Who makes the most reliable new cars?

consumerreports.org

191–200 of 1001 posts

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#191

French cars not included, i would say Renault is pretty reliable as well

ConsumerReports just covers the American market, so in addition to Renault (which doesn't sell in the US [1]) it excludes all cars that the listed makes sell outside the US.

[1] https://www.hemmings.com/stories/renault-returning-to-us-mar...

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#192

No way BMW is that high. I literally saw the past 2-3 weeks two X7s and an X5 stranded on the highway, on my way to work. I remember because I was joking yesterday with my partner that we should never buy a Beamer.

BMWs are actually pretty reliable these days. the b58 is very solid and used all across their lineup.

of course, they are still expensive to maintain.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#193

I have never understood how the Consumer Reports model of self(reader)-reported reliability can produce can statistically valid results. There are many biases build in to self-reporting surveys. Longtime Consumer Reports readers who buy a Toyota because they believe it is the most reliable make want their choice to have been correct. Their answers about problems with their car will reflect that.

There was a time when CR regularly rated Buick at the top of the charts. At that time, my mom and all her little old lady friends (I'm not using those adjectives lightly) had Buicks and literally used them to drive to Church on Sundays (and occasionally the grocery store, which was about five blocks away). The cars were terrible, but they were treated well.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#194

Toyota is amazing for making reliable cars but writing truly shitty code. IIRC, a lawsuit a few years ago about Toyota's faulty brake system revealed that Toyota engineers cramped tens of thousands of lines in a single file and the lines freely update hundreds of global variables. It's also interesting that Japanese companies follow ISO this and CMM that yet they develop slowly and produce shitty software services ev…

This? From almost 20 years ago. https://www.safetyresearch.net/Library/BarrSlides_FINAL_SCRU...

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#195
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to the motorcycling world! Today's cars continually start the engine - that's a huge draw. If you're going to leave your car sit more than a couple weeks then you should put your battery on a tender. Motorcyclists have been doing that for decades.

Why is that an issue for motorcycles?

Tiny batteries have less headroom against phantom drains. Also, most motorcycles aren't daily riders, so the problem is exacerbated.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#196

I wonder if hybrid being more reliable than gasoline cars is simply a function of most of those being Toyota, versus any effect stemming from the car being Hybrid.

A standard hybrid (of the sort that a range of companies make, handwavingly a parallel hybrid with creep capability, which a PHEV is just a supersized version of) eliminates a huge swath of things that go wrong with ICEs.

First and foremost, the transmission replaces the rather staggering pile of complexity of a modern automatic transmission, typically, with "a few motor/generators, some planetary gears, maybe a band that only engages when a motor is already stopped, and some power electronics." Compared to the 9+ speed automatics, this is dramatically simpler. Quite a few hybrids don't even have a mechanical reverse gear, it's just using the electronics for that brief period.

But, beyond that, you generally aren't asking the engine to idle, or to provide "starting torque" for the car - the hybrid system handles that sort of thing well. On at least the Gen 1 Volts, the motor "idles" at about 1200-1300 RPM, vs the ~750 RPM in most other vehicles, because it's almost never needed at low speed (heating in the dead of winter is the one time I notice it). But you don't have low speed, high load operation on the engines (which is a hard regime to operate in), and you don't have rapid speed changes with gear shifts (which is certainly more stressful than smooth speed changes or continuous speed operation).

You have less brake system wear, and... it goes on.

I know there's this popular "Hybrids/PHEVs are the most complicated of both worlds, so they must be the most unreliable of all worlds!" thing going around, but the data is quite clear that they're exceedingly reliable in actual use, and the "most complicated of all worlds" things tends to zoom out far enough to avoid looking at the transmission or engine design at any level of detail.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#197

Toyota is amazing for making reliable cars but writing truly shitty code. IIRC, a lawsuit a few years ago about Toyota's faulty brake system revealed that Toyota engineers cramped tens of thousands of lines in a single file and the lines freely update hundreds of global variables. It's also interesting that Japanese companies follow ISO this and CMM that yet they develop slowly and produce shitty software services ev…

I think you could perhaps say that Japanese are extremely highly sensitive to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switching_barriers in indusrial and administrative processes relative to other cultures.

If something causes friction or pain, but switching away / updating to a new system would incur a high cost or retraining time or break institutional knowledge, there seems to be an extreme bias to adapting to the pain rather than suffering the switching cost temporarily to improve the situation. There does seem to be a benefit though of extreme adaptation that occurs when a process remains unchanged for a very, very long time and actors in the system can develop extreme levels of experience.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#198
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You need oil and regular oil changes. Slightly OT, but I recently found that here in Germany there is a service where you can go to just like to a car wash without making an appointment. They will do the oil change for you within ten minutes or so and you do not even have to get out of your car during that time. This makes oil changes so much less annoying.

This has been common in the US for at least a decade now.

Four decades ago where I lived then. I used them here 30yr ago.

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#199
Note that these stats only account for reliability in the first three years:

> Then the brand reliability score was calculated by averaging results from 2021 to 2023.

As someone who usually buys ~10 year old cars and drives them into the ground I'm much more interested in long term reliability. It may correlate but these stats are not that!

Re: Who makes the most reliable new cars?

#200
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Toyota hybrid reliably does not start after 4 weeks not driving. The 12 volt (1 year old) battery is drained too much after such a period of inactivity. I was not expecting this from Toyota, pretty disappointing.

Maybe they hired whoever designed the original Tesla Model S 12V battery management system. Or the original Tesla low-power sleep system.

Oh man, that was a train wreck!

I did some analysis of the Tesla 12V system back in 2016, and I'm amazed the batteries lasted as long as they did with how badly they abused the lead acid battery!

https://www.sevarg.net/2016/10/30/tesla-model-s-12v-battery-...

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