Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla • Hacker News Board

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#191

Post by intrasight » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

I just don't see this issue getting much traction until something really bad happens to a large group of powerful people. But even then it may not come to light as said people will cut a deal with car companies to exclude them from telemetry sighting "national security". They of course won't publicize this and when it inevitably becomes public they will just shrug.

It won't get traction for the average person because the immediate effects are positive (lower insurance) and the dangers are very theoretical (a bad actor knowing where my car is). People are much more concerned about the near and present danger of bad actors hacking their financial accounts and stealing they hard-earned money.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#192

Post by kornhole » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

I spent a lot of time researching all this a few years ago when looking for a new car. Despite the ability to afford any car, I am still riding a bike and taking public transit because of what I discovered. I know this is a difficult option for people in many places, but I am happy. Car makers should take notice that a growing number of people like me want a FOSS OS rather than an Iphone on wheels.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#193

Post by ragnese » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #182

cpursley wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The touchscreens are really a dealbreaker on new cars. They’re not just prone to quick obsolescence, they’re dangerous.

[flagged]

> It reminds me of the complaining in the early iPhone days about lack of a physical keyboard.

I totally get that. People will always complain about some new design fad, whether it's actually good or not.

However... we're talking about heavy vehicles traveling at high speed with humans inside. You simply don't have to takes your eyes off the road as long with tactile controls as you do with touch screens.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#194

Post by renegat0x0 » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 2:41 PM UTC

In modern era everything mechanical, or analog is being replaced with digital, or with something "as a software". Product is replaced with "service".

When everything becomes in the end connected with the Internet, everything is dependent... A system crash of AWS, Google, or any other monolithic provider will have drastic results. A system crash could halt many cars in a country. In the future Hackers could stall entire country transportation.

With oligopoly,monopoly the power player can decide with very granular precision what you can, and cannot do, where you can go. You have no power to object. Even government bodies could be against you, or could be too small to fight big corporations.

More

- cameras in cars. What they will detect? If I am drunk, or something more? Will there be glitches to record more stuff? Will the cars have back doors for governments?

- what kind of data will cars collect? Audio? Video? Biometrics? Facial data? Hate speech?

- they can analyze where you go, why you do something, maybe for analytics, for governments, or for ad business

- they can define terms of conditions, which of course can allow the producers to sell your data to third parties for cheaper models of cars

At first you will be able to mitigate. You will be able to buy older cards. Eventually we will not be able to choose a different life. There is no really opt out if everybody implements techno-feudalistic software patterns.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#195

Post by jamesboehmer » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 2:42 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #182

cpursley wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The touchscreens are really a dealbreaker on new cars. They’re not just prone to quick obsolescence, they’re dangerous.

[flagged]

There's a gigantic difference. You stare at a handheld device when typing. When you're driving you need to feel what you're touching, otherwise you have to take your eyes off the road.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#196

Post by HumblyTossed » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 2:42 PM UTC

stanski wrote: post #168

tristor wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate them so much. Otherwise great cars are completely ruined by touchscreens. What was wrong with tactile knobs you could operate one handed without looking? You’re driving for fuck’s sake. It’s why things like the GR Corolla are nearly miraculous in 2023, it even comes stick shift only.

I assume it's a cost thing. Slapping a tablet everywhere and letting the code monkeys figure it out is probably cheaper than making various knobs and buttons. I dread the day I have to get a new car. Even Subaru, who are usually behind the curve, have gone all touch screen.

> I assume it's a cost thing.

Is it though? It's not like they have to reinvent the button each time. Buttons that last a decade or three have already been designed.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#197

Post by w0m » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 2:43 PM UTC

guestbest wrote: post #179

cpursley wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The touchscreens are really a dealbreaker on new cars. They’re not just prone to quick obsolescence, they’re dangerous.

I think they put in the touchscreens because it makes internationalization easier. No physical labels and OTA updates. Personally, I don’t think digital internationalization is good for the driver since it appeals to the lowest common denominator of interface while adding another expensive component to replace in case of damage.

I wouldn't even go that far: It's less wires to run.

Yea; my cars interface has had 3 radical redesigns since I got it (which I mostly appreciate), but think of how much easier to build a Model 3 is when it foregoes 95% of a cars normal physical buttons for a single screen.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#198

Post by stjohnswarts » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 2:43 PM UTC

lefuturiste wrote: post #49

Get a bike (a muscular one) and problem solved :)

around here it's literally just the amount of time until you get hit by a car, everyone I've known who bikes (n=5) or motorcycles (n=4) on the regular has been hit. Only the severity varies.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#199

Post by HumblyTossed » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 2:43 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #182

cpursley wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The touchscreens are really a dealbreaker on new cars. They’re not just prone to quick obsolescence, they’re dangerous.

[flagged]

> It reminds me of the complaining in the early iPhone days about lack of a physical keyboard.

This is so not the same thing.

Re: Internet-connected cars fail privacy and security tests conducted by Mozilla

#200

Post by pard68 » Wed, Sep 06, 2023, 2:44 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #79

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that won’t be an option in a few . How many 2015 cars will be on the road and for sale in 2035?

It might actually be less than 1975 cars. Most of the parts for a pre-computerised car can be made in a decent machine shop. The computers and software for newer cars are a huge contrast from that.

Really depends, you can find some 80s and I think even till 93, trucks without any computers. I have a 1954 Chevy 2-ton and the early 90s Chevy 3500HDs and the early 90s GM box trucks are great donors because a lot of stuff is sized (axles is a big one) right and the box truck's engine is a drop in replacement if you want to convert to diesel.