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66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

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Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#191

Post by armitron »

maccard wrote: post #172
emptysongglass wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salaries are so much lower than our American counterparts you'll be working right up until our government mandated retirement age, which is increasing. Our economic growth across the EU is stagnant. These are not things to be celebrated.

While all the sentences you wrote are technically correct, your point is wrong. > you'll be working right up until our government mandated retirement age As will an american, unless they're going to go without healthcare? Unless you're doing some _wild_ saving, paying for health insurance as you age is going to necessitate working. Health insurance for a couple (assuming you can get it and it covers anything that you…

> As will an american, unless they're going to go without healthcare? Unless you're doing some _wild_ saving, paying for health insurance as you age is going to necessitate working.

In the US, most highly-skilled senior engineers will be multi-millionaires in their 40s which means that they can immediately retire and pay out of pocket for private health insurance covering the entire family without even making a dent on their principal. Even if that wasn't an option, one can get health insurance via one's spouse or work a few hours part-time for an employer that provides it.

I retired in my 40s and spent the last 10 years living in both the US and multiple European countries (with a lot of time spent in Germany as I have family there). While I've so far enjoyed living in Europe, the worsening downward slope in quality of life is more obvious here than in the US. Unrestrained immigration is a big problem that's going to get a lot worse in the next decades and is already rapidly eroding the much praised European social safety nets.

Ultimately, US offers optionality which means that one isn't chained like a slave to a grossly inefficient disintegrating socialist state for the rest of one's life.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#192

Post by dfawcus »

Teever wrote: post #69
quonn wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents have to pay for university in Europe unless they are poor. And while there are no fees, the costs are typically between 30k and 100k per child. edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know. edit2: Someone said this comment could be interpreted as the cost per year which is not the case. This is the total cost.

Tuiton in France is $500-600 USD/year for any European citizen. And degrees are only 3 years in France.

European citizen, or EU citizen?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#193

Post by flohofwoe »

nxm wrote: post #82
cloogshicer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…

Salaries are lower and taxes are significantly higher. Take your pick, but I’d rather take the American approach of a more dynamic job market. I wouldn’t want to deal with low GDP growth, public strikes (see France) and little ability to build wealth.

> I wouldn’t want to deal with low GDP growth, public strikes (see France) and little ability to build wealth.

Have you ever been personally affected by something as abstract as "low GDP growth"? Or public strikes except maybe a bit of inconvenience? And what do you need "wealth" for except to reduce financial risks that are much lower in a civilized country to begin with?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#194

Post by maccard »

unmole wrote: post #139
catboybotnet wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If pay is the only concern, why not just take up contract work and refuse benefits to get the most pay? Ignoring the other variables at play, such as cost of living and benefits, and only focusing on pay is foolish.

Higher pay gives you options like being able to take unpaid time off and still coming out ahead. That's more appealing than nebulous benefits . Contract work is a fundamentally different proposition and equating it to employment is foolish.

> That's more appealing than nebulous benefits.

Benefits aren't nebulous, they're concrete things. My employer offers a pension(401k) contribution, health insurance (which is a queue skip really here), income protection for long term sickness or death in service, and a "perks card" which is 95% crap but gives me a 25% discount on the largest gym chain in my area. That's just monetary.

On the "non-monetary" side, I'm guaranteed 33 days _paid_ time off (and promised 40 this year), have an option to take a month _unpaid_ with notice, I have employment rights and can't just find myself without a job with no notice or dismissed for no reason. There's also the "overhead"/admin work of managing a business and handling the tax affairs. Sure it's straightforward, until HMRC decide it's audit time.

> Contract work is a fundamentally different proposition and equating it to employment is foolish.

That, I agree with.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#195

Post by ChatGTP »

Moldoteck wrote: post #147

Regardless of what you think, in the best path is being an eu citizen, work in us(some high paying job like IT) for 5-10 years, return in eu with huge cash, buy a home, work some more chill years for minimal pension and happily retire. Eu is nice to retire if you are eu citizen and have enough cash(by either working some years in us or remotely for us conpanies but a bit less pay)

Do you pay tax in Europe while in the US, or just do the parasitical thing?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#196

Post by rpadovani »

quonn wrote: post #158
n_ary wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know. I am also there and I didn't pay any monies anywhere for university(unless you mean fancy private university?). All state universities are free and we only paid some misely amount every 6 months for the city-ticket(free access to all public transport in the city, cool stuff). Also, state pays each child ~125/month until they are 25. I believe you…

Good for you. I paid around 70 per month and it only covered the subway network between my apartment and the university. Or whole network for 85. That‘s not exactly cheap.

Beginning 2013, there is the semester tickets for students, which is twenty euros per month.

Before that, 70 euros? Where were you living, Freising?

Two external rings were around 50 euros at the time, and many students rent inside the (old) 4 inner rings, or the first external one if you study in Garching

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#198

Post by flohofwoe »

armitron wrote: post #191
maccard wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While all the sentences you wrote are technically correct, your point is wrong. > you'll be working right up until our government mandated retirement age As will an american, unless they're going to go without healthcare? Unless you're doing some _wild_ saving, paying for health insurance as you age is going to necessitate working. Health insurance for a couple (assuming you can get it and it covers anything that you…

> As will an american, unless they're going to go without healthcare? Unless you're doing some _wild_ saving, paying for health insurance as you age is going to necessitate working. In the US, most highly-skilled senior engineers will be multi-millionaires in their 40s which means that they can immediately retire and pay out of pocket for private health insurance covering the entire family without even making a dent…

> Most capable senior engineers...

What about the less capable though? Do we just forget they exist?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#199

Post by ChatGTP »

jakewins wrote: post #63
lionkor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the US salary hold up against the benefits you get in a well-off EU country? Namely free healthcare, automatic payments into pension fund, strong social system if you're ever in trouble, etc.? It seems to me that, as high as US salaries are, they arent that much higher compared to European salaries when you factor all this in, plus the face that a month of that work youre paid for youre OOO

I think you can do this math yourself pretty fast: US median software eng salary is about $170k/yr, German one is $80. Both will include full health benefits etc. With 5 weeks paid vacation in DE and 2 weeks in US, that would be $170k for 50 weeks if work vs $80k for 47 weeks. Not counting US taxes being lower and looking only at gross pay, that’s about $1.7K/week in DE vs $3.4K/week in the US. So after correcting fo…

You do know that the majority of Americans aren't software engineers on ridiculous packages right?

Real actual engineers who build roads and power grids make way less money and have way less benefits while IMO doing much more important work than 90% of software engineers even understand.

Please take into account the real world before commenting on how good things are for everyone?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#200

Post by flohofwoe »

quonn wrote: post #121
lqet wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? My parents send me the child allowance ("Kindergeld") they received for me for the 6 years I was at university, plus 100 EUR/month. I also had a regular job earning 450 EUR per month, so I had around 700-800 EUR of income per month with a 240 EUR rent. Tuition was 500 EUR per semester, so around 80 EUR/month. I was health insured for free via the insurance of my parents. I had around 300-400 EUR per month for f…

Here is a realistic estimate for Munich. A room costs minimum 350 Euros or may easily cost 1000. Food and going out costs at least 100 Euros or healthy food 200-300. The subway ticket at that time cost 70 per month. There are some additional costs such as health insurance etc. Tuition at that time was 500 per semester for me. Spending a semester abroad as is common is usually far more expensive. And by law your paren…

> Here is a realistic estimate for Munich

Munich is the most expensive Germany city, just saying...

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